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Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
The Triggering of Deep-Seated Fears and Past Traumas
Ever wondered how a seemingly minor incident can trigger a cascade of deep-seated fears and past traumas? Join us on Real Talk with Tina and Ann as they discuss how everyday moments can trigger an irrational fear response, uncovering the layers of stress and anxiety that come with it. Through Tina and Ann's stories, we unravel the complexities of rational and irrational fears and discuss therapeutic approaches like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Internal Family Systems (IFS) that help manage these overwhelming reactions. Ann also reflects on the dual nature of fear and the power of trust, citing an inspiring quote from her favorite singer, Pink, about facing fears head-on.
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Castro: Real Talk with Tina and Ann (castro.fm)
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne and this episode is going to have some references from earlier in the year. This is very relevant today. We are going to be talking about irrational fears versus rational fears. What's the worst outcome? What's the best outcome? What is the most likely outcome? If the worst outcome happens, will it matter even a week later? We talk about CBT therapy and some other therapies. We talk about fight or flight, how fear is a mental state and can cause real consequences. We talk about irrational fears being so consuming and how our brains can actually learn how to carve a new path. We talk about exposure therapy and mindsets that can be fatalistic, fixed or growth mindset. We talk about many other things. So we hope that you enjoy these next two episodes. Here is part one. Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne.
Speaker 2:And I am Tina. Thank you for joining us this week as we talk about rational versus irrational fears.
Speaker 1:You know, tina, I just have to talk about something. I became that parent this week. I became that parent this week. I cannot believe who I became. I cannot tell you how many times I just had to look at my behavior and laugh. That's why I'm kind of laughing now, because it was just a laugh or cry week.
Speaker 1:A member of our family she had surgery, a pretty big surgery actually, and so it elevated all of our stress in the family my one son just didn't want to go to school. I mean, he was so upset, he had, you know, stomach issues and he was on the pot, he was crying. I could not get him to school, but I had to get our family member to the hospital. So it was like crunch time and you know it was like, come on, we got to get going. He's like, oh, but my stomach and all of that stuff. So, long story short, I finally get him there, get him in the little lobby area and I'm trying to console him because he is just crocodile tears.
Speaker 1:The secretary comes out and she and I'm trying to be careful in how I say this, because my perception of what happened versus what really happened in the moment was a little. I'm sure it was different, because I just became mama bear and when you're in already a heightened state you can misperceive what's actually happening. And so she did touch him, she did pull him into the office and my words were that she manhandled him at the time but she just was trying to what I said push. But I have even backpedaled to the point where I'm saying she nudged him down the hall and to me it just I'll tell you what I mean. I just I was nice. I mean I didn't like get super mad, but I said some things and I went into this fight or flight mode that I have not been in in a really long time I can't even tell you how many years.
Speaker 1:But my trauma it got triggered. All of my past fears, they just came back. She did handle it inappropriately. She should have asked, she should have just come out and said hey, can I help you transition them in? Should I get somebody? I mean he's your garden, so I mean sometimes it takes a little bit to help these littles to transition in when they're having a rough time. But you know I didn't handle it well either. So I instantly tried to calm.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I backpedaled my words, but I felt exactly what we are talking about today. I had this irrational reaction because it triggered a fear response in me. Now let me add something to the equation real quick, because it was Valentine's Day that morning when we were getting ready for this surgery and my kids all got this little gift basket or little gift bag and they were having fun and smiling and laughing and then all of a sudden, my daughter says this is the best day ever. And that's where the trigger started. Right before my dad died and I've talked about that in past episodes I had the best days of my life. Just everything was just wonderful, perfect and happiest that I could remember. And then he died. So I always, like, made that association of happiness doing really well.
Speaker 1:And you know, and the second she said that I hit this irrational fear. So I mean, that's what we're talking about today is irrational fear versus rational fear. Now there was a fear that the surgery could go wrong and there could be complications. I mean that's rational, but there was a 90% chance that nothing was going to happen. But it didn't matter right then, because all I saw was fear.
Speaker 2:See, that's the tricky part about triggers is you don't know when they're going to happen. Part about triggers is you don't know when they're going to happen. So I feel like one of the keys is to learn either type of behavior therapy or like an IFS, of how to kind of sit in oh whoa, okay, Hello, fear, when did you come from? You know? Why are you here? What are you trying to tell me? I think fear is the underlying motive. So much in my life, unfortunately. Yes, I often push past it, but it also is often the driver of the bus, at least for a period of time. But I will say I do think fear can be motivating and it can be paralyzing, just like my OCD can be debilitating, and it can also be my superpower.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it. It can actually be both. I used to always let my fears guide me, but I woke up afraid all the time. Everything I did was in fear. All the time, everything I did was in fear. But today, almost every day, I have learned to push through the fear and see the world with a different perspective. I just heard a quote from my favorite singer, which is Pink. She's just. She has always been like this. She has my mantra everything about her, everything that she sings, it's just like she gets me. I don't know why, but it was about trust. I heard her talk this morning because her new album is out, so she was talking about her new song and so she was talking about trust. But it also could be used in fear. In this quote used in fear. In this quote, she said I'm more trusting now because whatever comes at me, you know she can handle it. And I think I have learned to live with the fear because whatever comes at me, I know I can handle now more than I ever could before.
Speaker 2:You've put a lot of work in to be able to be in the place that you are too, and so, just like you told me when I had my very fearful, irrational experience that we'll get to here in a moment you know you you were there to be able to comfort me and kind of show me the light that, listen, you are here now and that's okay, you're going to be okay. So I think what I have learned is living with fear as one of those passengers on our bus, like a part of us knowing it serves a purpose, but also knowing when it's a distraction, I think is just the healthy expectation.
Speaker 1:I've had generalized fears that make no sense at all. I had some bad things happen with women when I was younger and I went decades afraid of older women and staying just away from them, so it was a complete generalized fear.
Speaker 2:Same. I can relate to a similar fear of certain people who I was taught were bad and worked really really hard throughout my life to overcome that.
Speaker 1:You know, I do have a generalized fear. That does make sense, really, tell me. Okay, I think every spider is equally as scary. It doesn't matter if they're big or small. That's it, i'm'm out. I've always said that if I'm in a one car accident, look for the spider I am totally with you on spiders.
Speaker 2:Love them outside, taking care of the bugs doing what they do. But they come inside. They're dead, but only once my husband gets home, because I will trap them under cups and we'll just wait until he comes home to deal with them. So there was one the other day in the basement tiny, I never said the size of it, but I hollered for him and he's not answering. I'm like hollering and hollering because I'm watching it walk around and my skin is crawling right now even as I talk about it. And then he's finally like yeah, and I'm like there's a spider down here, can you help? And usually he exaggerates and brings like 17 paper towels because he knows me. But he had like the teeniest, tiniest corner of a paper towel and I was just like you're so brave, I would have needed two oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Well, one of my daughters when she was younger. Now I have two older daughters and one of them was she was about 14, so this was a long time ago and, um, she's texting me and she's saying hey, you know, there's a spider in my room, you have to get home, I can't move. And she literally had this thing trapped with a ton of objects and she was in a corner and she wasn't able to move. Now, I know that I laugh about spiders, but it can be a real fear that can be paralyzing. That's what fears can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to tell you about that story now. Let's see if I. You know, sometimes it's not fun to relive trauma, but here we go.
Speaker 2:A few months ago, I was trauma triggered. On the night of my birthday oh, it's quite a present I discovered mouse poop in our Lazy Susan cabinet. Immediately I felt dirty, I cried, I was angry, really upset. I was so scared and all I could think of is how, like, how, so then took over like OCD. It was just I've got to figure this out, I've got to figure this out myself. Down right then, because I was hopeful. Okay, I started to think more rational for a second. I thought okay, in a day or two, you know what, we're going to catch the mouse. We're going to set up some traps. It's going to be okay, everything's going to be okay. Well, it was not okay.
Speaker 2:Well, we must've had the world's smartest mouse in our home, because two weeks went by, we didn't catch a thing and yet the mouse or I should say mice at this point had just been all over our house. We had 100 traps, every single kind of trap, from humane to snap your neck traps, all set up. Somehow they avoided every single one. So we did the only other logical thing that we could think of and we hired a pest control company. We had a home inspection too, actually, to figure out where these mice were coming from. So we figured it out it was from the basement. Anyone listening who's ever had a mouse problem? Go to the basement and turn off the lights when it's daytime and see if you see any holes. Like look up over the rafters, like stand up on your washing machine and dryer if they're by the wall. Because I could not believe the holes like half dollar size that were where we just couldn't see and so luckily we didn't have any mice before that we knew of. So there was also this vent to nowhere that was plugged on the end with a rag really stuffed in there and up against the wall. And so the home inspector said I'm telling you that is where the mice are nesting. And I was like no way. He's like oh yeah. I said did you look? He says no, I'm like what. So he leaves my house. He doesn't check that.
Speaker 2:I got brave. I was very brave because I was in. I need to protect my family. I was shaking so bad but I got a little ladder. I stood up there, I stuck my hand in there, I pulled that towel out. Sure enough, there was mouse poop galore and some shredded plastic and it had been trying to chew through that towel to get maybe out to the other side, but turns out it was able to get out some other way. But anyway, I got rid of that as soon as possible and I went to work filling those holes few weeks because I took care of all the necessary places that we needed to seal up for our home and for, you know, just to keep our family safe.
Speaker 2:Well, one morning I actually saw the mouse in the bathroom and the first one up in the morning I saw it. That is when I was absolutely triggered. That's when the trauma hit me. That's when the fear came. I was this scared young girl all over again and, like I said before, that's the thing with trauma you don't know when you're going to be triggered. It brought me back to a traumatized time as a little girl. I was incredibly afraid of the dark. I had to see a psychologist for how afraid I was of the dark, for how afraid I was of someone breaking into my house and killing my family. So the whole time I'm behaving like a scared girl, not like an adult.
Speaker 2:And during this mouse issue incident, I should say, and all I could think of was there is an intruder constantly watching me, waiting for me to mess up. It was the most horrifying thing that I have gone through as an adult, and I've been through a lot of stuff. I went through our entire house and garage in a matter of days and bent everything up Every single day. My husband and I were looking in the morning for where this mouse mice were and, you know, tracking its poop. We had to search every square inch of our house every single morning because I could not survive if I didn't. Plus, I felt like I didn't feel like that was a childlike thing to do. I felt like that's what you needed to do, because they're, first of all, they're disgusting, you know, and you don't want to have mouse poop all over your house. You know, oh, it's horrible.
Speaker 2:But I was so terrified to cook or even have food out because I thought I was being watched. I thought the mouse would just jump on the counter and eat what I was making, contaminate everything. I was constantly looking over my shoulder. This is how real the trauma was. I lost 11 pounds in one month and my beautiful curly hair literally broke off over the amount of stress and anxiety and trauma and fear I was facing. So I slept in fear and it didn't help knowing that the mouse had been in our bedroom at some point, because there was evidence there. Friends, it took 31 nights 31, before we caught two mice. Thankfully, we haven't had an issue since, but it did teach me a lot. First, there were a lot of irrational fears that I felt, but also I want to genuinely thank the six, seven, eight year old version of me for these, these coping skills. Seriously, it is what has led me to my trauma therapist where I'm working really hard on behavior therapies and other therapies, learning about my internal family systems and getting back to my true self.
Speaker 1:Oh, tina, I love you so much. I love you too, and it just hurts to watch when you go through things like that. But I do have to say that I am so proud of you. I'm so proud that you did whatever it took to continue past that fear, because I know how afraid you were and that is such a strength. I mean I can remember when you called me and said that you needed me. Do you know what a strength it is to say that? It is an amazing strength to ask for help?
Speaker 2:It took everything I had. Yeah, I thought I was going to die. No, I wish I was kidding you. I thought this is going to die. No, I wish I was kidding you. I thought this is it for me. I would rather die than have to be put through this trauma. And my therapist says that's not being suicidal. That's explaining the fact that this was so traumatic. You didn't want to have to feel that for so long.
Speaker 1:Well, I felt it in your words. I knew that something was really wrong. I knew that you needed help. So I have been, and will always, be so proud of you for how strong that you are, and for anybody out there that is listening to this and you know I'm glad that you are, because sometimes we're just meant to hear things and even the fact that we wake up in the morning and decide to. You know, I want to go back to what you know again, what Pink said this morning in another. She was talking about her new song, trust Fall, and she said well, that's what we do when we wake up in the morning, that's what we do throughout the day. We're constantly going through our day and it's like a trust fall and we have to trust fall into whatever is scary.
Speaker 1:My son had an incident where we finally got him to sleep in another room because he can't sleep away from me yet at six years old. So we finally got him to sleep in this room. It wasn't his bedroom, but it has a couch and everything in there and he was all about it. He got a nosebleed oh no, so for the next six months after that he's just like no, I can't sleep in there because I'm going to get a nosebleed. He even told his brother don't sleep in there because he would get a nosebleed.
Speaker 2:We can relate, right, yeah, we can relate, right, yeah. So my middle son struggles with some fears. Shadows, darker like the night, concerns even our carbon monoxide detector, because when we tested it it was so loud and it scared him so bad. Oh boy that he asks about that on a semi-frequent basis. And I can relate, because I had some of those similar fears at his age too. So I am doing some of the things that my parents did to comfort me and other things that I know that I needed. Now I knew I needed them.
Speaker 2:I wish I knew then what to ask for, but we're helping him just work through. So, for example, I gave him my St Christopher medal that my dad gave me when I was going through you know these scary times as a young girl, and it helped me feel safer at night. So he has it wrapped around his bedpost and sometimes he'll give it to me and tell me you know, if I had a bad dream or something, he'll, he'll give it to me and I'll take it for a night when I give it back. That's so sweet, it is sweet, and I tell him he can always, always and personally I think this one is key he can always come into our room for any reason, of him being scared or sick, you know, whenever it would be, and I will be there to comfort him.
Speaker 2:I did not get that opportunity when I was young and I think it definitely fueled my fear even more, because my parents are who made me feel safe, but they did not want me coming in their room at night, and so when I would be scared I would just sit outside their door where I would see the shadows. I'd hear the sounds, and one time it was so very real that somebody was coming into my room that was already broken into our house. Coming into my room, I thought I saw the doorknob turning. I, at six or seven years old, pushed my toy chest up against my door and called 911. That is how serious it was for me.
Speaker 2:So I am a big proponent of whatever you need to feel comfortable. If I bring you that comfort, please come to me before I'm no longer comforting. I feel like you'll grow up and maybe grow out of it. Or when he's 16, I'm sure he's not going to come in my room. Mommy, I'm scared. You know what I mean and, believe it or not, our son does not come in often, but when he does, we take it out, we welcome him, we ask what he needs to feel safe and to feel comforted, and he is very good at telling us that.
Speaker 1:And I'm really grateful for that, because he really does not come in often. You know you're really giving your kids a gift to know that, no matter what, you can come into your parents' room or just come to you in general and be comforted. What an absolute, amazing, beautiful gift to trust the adults in the house and know that they are the safety. You just can't replace that with anything and I'm sorry you did not really feel that safe and you were that little girl in that room that had to shove all that up against the door and call 911.
Speaker 1:And your fears were just so real to you. I mean that's just. I mean it is real, it is, even though it might sound like, well, that's just irrational, it's not because in your mind it is real. Yep, absolutely. When we had this thing with my youngest like I said, I have two older kids as well and when she was a kid we had this monster spray that will spray under her bed because she really, I mean and she was a little bit older than the normal little kid that thinks so there's a monster under my bed but we would spray this monster spray under her bed and in her room and she would really feel safe. It just helped her feel safer.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. I've seen like a monster box where you put like your worries in there and it eats them up. You know, like supposedly. And I love little tips and tricks like that because if it makes them feel more comfortable, oh do it. I think there's nothing wrong with any of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, and it's just like even saying a prayer with them before they go to sleep. You know, it just helps them feel safer. Now one of the things that I've learned, and we're going to cover more about this in the next episode. But let's ask ourselves what the worst outcome could be with our fear. What could it be? What's the worst outcome, what's the best outcome and what is the most likely outcome? Then ask what if this worst outcome was true? Will it matter in a week, a month, a year? Now there is a real therapy. That is a part of this CBT cognitive behavioral approach to changing our thought patterns, like a rewiring. Now I think, yes, some of them will matter in even a year, but it's become now. We are living in a new reality. It's my new normal, so it really is trying to reteach the brain and really take a look at what's going on and try to take on a different perspective instead of be so fearful in the moment.
Speaker 2:That's so good, I've never asked myself the last part of it. I've thought about best case, worst case, but not the most likely. I really like that. So I guess I've been doing, you know, some of that, not even realizing it's a type of therapy, yay me. So I always do ask myself when I'm particularly, I notice, when I'm very angry. I don't know if I do it when I'm afraid I think it's more of an anger thing for me. Okay, this will you know. Or if I was betrayed by someone, or you know what I mean, will this you know? When something happens that stirs up angers, when I notice it, will this happen or will this matter in a year or five years from now? If the answer is yes, then I get to work and start. Okay, what do I need to do then? If the answer is no, I work really hard to let it go. But I'm a type five personality, the overthinker, so letting it go is not so easy. Plus, I have this newly learned OCD thinking pattern brain, so I'm trying to battle through all of that.
Speaker 2:In one of my all-time favorite TV series, this Is Us, randall and his wife played a game called best case, worst case scenario. It was talking about this very topic, and I really liked it because they felt like neither was judging and that they were both a safe space to talk out their fears. And sometimes, when they would do this on the show, you would laugh or you'd be like wait, what, and how did you even come up with that? But my husband and I started doing this on occasion, and it really does help calm me down and help sort through the irrational, or even rational, thoughts. When we do it, or, if nothing else, it just makes us giggle, so just kind of when you just get it out there like a sigh of relief Okay, now we can see what really happens type of thing.
Speaker 2:I have a dear friend, though, who I just found out recently struggles with skin dysmorphia, and it can cause her to look at her beautiful face in the mirror and see every scar from every scratch, from every pimple, from every scrape, and it has literally forced her on multiple occasions to cancel whatever plans she has for that day and do nothing. So what I recently learned is that her expressing that irrational fear which that's what she called it or thought has helped another friend of hers feel even more comfortable around her with his body image concerns. So my whole point in sharing that is sometimes it's the very thing we think has trapped us that is slowly setting us free and connecting us to other people in this beautiful and powerful way that only scars can do.
Speaker 1:You know, that is just so beautiful, tina, because honestly I think that this is one of the biggest things that has connected us, and some of our biggest hurts and scars if that's what you want to call it is when you have someone else that you can confide in, that you can tell your thoughts or fears to, and it just instantly calms and helps you to feel a little more at ease. It helps to level the fear and help to look at it more rationally. Just someone to say you know, I hear you and you're there, I'm there for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it means everything. It means so much. That's what you did for me and I'm in this pruning season. I wouldn't have asked for it in friendships, but I am there and it is hard to learn about people who you thought were your friends. But you see, aren't, and it's okay. Sometimes people just stay for a season, others have longer seasons and some are lifelong, but it's so good to know that I can trust you, which is why we're doing this podcast together and I always say do something. Doing nothing is the wrong option when a family member or friend is in need.
Speaker 1:You know, it's kind of cool in a way, because you know, you and I have had conversations like this all the time, but now we are making them more public because we just feel that if we can just help somebody, so you know it's yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm good with it. Yeah, and it's just really interesting how that need in our hearts in order to take our conversations and our hurts and our pains and be transparent to others to help somebody else so that's what connection can do. So it really is a beautiful thing. You came today with a quote, right, tina?
Speaker 2:Yes, I want to leave you with the word hope as an acronym or initialism, however you want to frame it, but hold on pain ends, oh my gosh, my heart. That brought me to tears of gratitude when I first saw the word expressed that way. I love the word hope, but I've never heard it hold on pain ends, and I think that's the overwhelming theme we want to share today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I haven't heard of that either, and I've heard a bunch of acronyms, but I have never heard that one. So I just want to end today saying that thank you for joining us. Until next time. Hold on, pain ends Love you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love you and I love everyone who's listening too. I hope you're getting as much out of it as we're putting into it.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
