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Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
From Orphanage to Olympic Strength: The Inspiring Life of renowned sculptor and drummer Jon Hair Part 1
Join Ann as she sits down with Jon Hair, a sculptor with a portfolio that includes prestigious commissions for the US Olympic Committee and the US Air Force Academy and the Emmy Hall of Fame. Jon has had 170 public art commissions including Shanghai and Beijing. He has sculpted public figures such as Mr. Rogers, Frederick Douglas, Richard T. Greener, President Obama, Rosa Parks and many more. He has also sculpted the famous Olympic Strength.
Listen to part one as Jon shares his experiences as a well-known drummer who played with people like Hendrix, Little Richard and even spent time with Simon and Garfunkle and others.
This is a story from orphanage to Jon's inspiring journey filled with resilience, dedication, and an unwavering commitment to creating lasting art.
Reflect on how Jon transitioned unexpectedly from a successful advertising career to becoming a renowned sculptor, and his philosophy on the importance of figurative art in a world that often favors abstract concepts. This episode provides a deep dive into Jon's artistic process, his thoughts on the competitive nature of art commissions, and his relentless pursuit of creating impactful and meaningful sculptures.
We also explore Jon's personal story of overcoming significant hardships, from growing up in an orphanage to celebrating 48 years of a supportive marriage. His journey is a powerful testament to the transformative power of hard work, family values, and the joy of creating art that uplifts and inspires. Concluding part one of Jon Hair's story, this episode highlights the importance of resilience and determination, promising more incredible insights in part two. Don't miss this captivating conversation that underscores the profound impact of art and the indomitable human spirit.
See Jon's works of art: Jonhair.com
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Castro: Real Talk with Tina and Ann (castro.fm)
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne and Tina will be back soon. John, I recently met you at the Mansfield Reformatory for the 30th reunion of the movie Shawshank Redemption. I first walked past you and it was just a real brief interaction I don't even know if you remember the first time and then the second time I mean this was hours later I walked past you and you were still sitting there and you're just sitting there drinking a cup of coffee and I'm like, were you in the movie? You looked so interesting to me.
Speaker 1:I knew that there was something about you and I felt an immediate connection with you and I wasn't sure why. So I said, you know, were you in the movie? And you said, ah, I've been an extra in other movies, but you know nothing major. And I was like, so you're kind of famous. And you're like, oh, I don't know. I said, well, what are you doing? Is this? Do you have a job? And you said yeah, to watch this sculpture. And I was like, uh, I mean this is a beautiful statue from the movie and you're watching it. And you said, yeah, because I made it. I mean that's how humble and gracious you really are. I mean, you just were so nonchalant about it.
Speaker 1:So long story short, I left there and I was just like what in the world? Why didn't I ask him to be on the podcast? We had such a great conversation. I was genuinely in awe of who you were. I came around the corner outside and I came around the corner outside. There was this huge banner that said you could win a $25,000 sculpture from John Hare. I said his name's John Hare. I know I have a name now, and so I immediately started Googling you, even before I got home, and there you were. I emailed you, you called me and here we are.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, thank you so much for doing this, because I know that you are very, very busy.
Speaker 2:I am pretty busy right now, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I just wanted to give our listeners a brief introduction to who you are.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You are the official Olympic sculptor.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You have created sculptures for even some stars, because I found some Okay US Olympic Committee, the US Air Force Academy, computer Sciences Corporation, cities from around the world like Beijing and Shanghai, and the Emmys Hall of Fame, and over 50 colleges, universities and schools. I've looked at your sculptures. All of them are stunning and just take on the essence of what you are trying to convey your Olympic strength. I mean, it exemplifies strength. Your historical figures, from Mother Teresa to Abraham Lincoln, martin Luther King, gandhi, frederick Douglass, george Washington, to name just a handful of them, seriously demonstrate their personalities. You have over 150 public art commissions. That's correct. I am not kidding when I say that they are stunning and everyone listening. Please go to johnhaircom and check out his work. But before we get into your beginnings and check out his work, but before we get into your beginnings, can I ask you if you could share about the process of sculpting and how long it takes to make one of those really large pieces?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the first thing you have to do is win the commission because, they put out a call for artists and you submit your qualifications and some samples of your work and if you make the short list there can be usually five or ten other sculptors that are also selected and then we sculpt a smaller version of it called the maquette, and you send that in and if they like your maquette, if they like your idea, they think they, they think they can get the best product from you then you win the commission. So almost all the over 150 commissions that I've had I've won like 95% of them. I've been very fortunate, very lucky really, because in the art world I'm really a nobody. Very lucky really because you know, in the art world I'm really a nobody Because the kind of work I do in the art world is not considered a valid art form.
Speaker 1:Well, I saw your work and I would say that it is a valid art form. I don't understand why they was sculpting not considered.
Speaker 2:Well, you know we're in the art world of Campbell's Soup, can Labels getting $60 million, the Bunny Rabbit Balloon Guy you know, it's just gimmicky junk like that. And since I was born I've had this thing inside me I want to be a great artist, right, right. I sat in the basement of a one room schoolhouse in Iowa, where I was born, with my five brothers and sisters and my mom and dad. We had no walls in the basement, just clotheslines with sheets hung up with clothespins that kind of divided it into rooms. But the one thing we did have was we had a bookcase and in the bookcase was the World Book Encyclopedia. And while my dad was working and my mom was out running around, if John would be the good guy and take care of all the kids and make sure that the dishes were done and the diapers were changed and everybody was in bed, well then, when mom came home with her boyfriend, well, he'd play me a game of chess, which he never did, but I'd sit there waiting for them after I cleaned the house and put all the kids to bed and I'd look through the World Book Encyclopedia. I saw these fantastic sculptures and beautiful illustrations of Spanish steps and just gorgeous artwork and I one night I was sitting there and I looked at it, at the bookcase, and I said that's the volume H. I wonder if there's anybody in there with my last name. I looked through and I said no, there isn't. You know, maybe I'll be the guy that can get my name in an encyclopedia. Maybe I'll be the guy that can do that. Of course, now everybody has a Wikipedia page, so that's not a goal. My goal right now is just to stay alive and stay in business and support my family. I've got three kids. I've paid for three master's degrees. My kids never had to get a college loan. I sent them through college to try to get them prepared for being successful in life, and that's like my whole thing.
Speaker 2:And when I went to art school I didn't like the art that was being done. The Campbell's Soup Can Label and Abrillo Box is in the art history book. And some guy takes a camper and parks it in front of a government building and takes a photograph of it. Then he takes a camper and parks it in front of a grocery store and so he parks this thing where it doesn't belong and he's in the art history book. You know the same guy that said a urinal was a piece of art, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So when I got to art school I was very disappointed in what the art world really was and I thought you know what, if I've got to do this kind of stuff to make a living, I'm just not going to do it. I'll go drive a truck, which I've done before. I've had plenty of jobs. I drove a laundry truck. I worked in factories. I cleaned toilets at night. I did my first freelance art job when I was nine years old, because we had no money and I wanted to rent a room that was in the music store window. I didn't have it, so I got my own jobs and I figured early in life I realized that nobody was going to help me. There was no adult that was on my side. There was no adult that cared about me. There was no adult that because it was all just. You know turmoil and drama from all the things that happened. So we went from the basement to an orphanage for a while, got the treatment there. You know I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Poor white kid, you know. Then we got shipped from there down to my grandma's house in Florida because nobody can trust my mom and my dad had to go work overseas to make up all the money that she went through when he was there the first time. And same thing there. I just found out recently. A friend of mine in St Petersburg, florida. I told him that the elementary school I went to in St Petersburg back in the 1950s yeah, told me. I said white kids school, oh, wow, okay, my mom, for years your parasites, your parasites, beatings all the time. And finally, you know, when you get to a point where you know you're going to get a beating for nothing. So now I'm going to get something out of it, you know I'm going to, I'm going to stick at this one of her boyfriends or somebody, if I get the chance.
Speaker 2:So my thing in life is I've just been trying to survive. That's it, and I've done a pretty good job at it so far. Of course I've been through a lot. You know personally, really, you know things that I don't know kind of tear you up but you have to build. Tear you down but you have to build yourself back up. You know you have to.
Speaker 2:You realize that you have to do it yourself. You know, especially if you're an art like me, an artist and a musician people don't call home and say honey, on the way home, could you stop by the store and pick up a sculpture? You don't do that, you know. So you've got to stand your ground, you've got to not take. My thing is this Don't give up, no matter what the consequences are. Don't give up, you'll get through it. Give in and have everybody tell you what you should be doing, when you know what you should be doing. You just haven't found a way to do it yet. But don't give out, just totally, just forget it and go be a drug addict or something, because that's what a lot of people do, I think, and I just worked hard to. You know, the one thing I wanted to do when I grew up was have a normal family and raise some kids that were normal and had an opportunity to succeed in life and know that they're loved and cherished.
Speaker 1:You didn't want anything like how you were raised or not raised. Nobody even raised you. Nothing Didn't write that Well, you know. You kind of touched on something that I think I also have, that we were beat down and beat down and beat down as young kids, but for some reason we didn't let it take hold of us and we still stayed on a path, no matter how hard it was, and we didn't give up. It's kind of like that Thomas Edison thing where he tried 10,000 ways to make the light bulb and he finally figured it out.
Speaker 1:I mean, lots of people don't have that and they quit way before you know they finally get over that hurdle and they get to where they're wanting to go. But for some reason you didn't let all those beatings and that living in the basement and the orphanage and everything else take you down to a point where you didn't even want to function and be your best self well, I had moments like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's like that, but, um, I pick myself up and just keep on going. You know, my thing in life is put your head down and go. And one of my favorite quotes is about uh, I think cecil beat a mill to ask his brother how come he was so successful. Your head down and go. And one of my favorite quotes is about I think Cecil B DeMille asked his brother how come he was so successful, and he said well, because he bit off more than he could chew, and then he chewed it. Right, I think I'm going to stick my head in the noose to try to get ahead, and if I hang, that's fine, but I'm going to give it my shot. So I've kind of always been that way.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because what are you going to do when you're in the situation that you're in?
Speaker 1:So has your family ever looked at your career, the family, your mom and dad, and said look what he did without us or in spite of us?
Speaker 2:No, not really my mom, you know. I got on a plane with her. She was, you know, losing a little bit of her mental faculties when she got really older and she told people on the airplane that I was an executive at Bank of America. Oh, okay, so, she, okay, so. And you know, basically, basically, before I got into the sculpture thing, I was an art director. You know, when I was a kid I watched that show Bewitched.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did too, and I even worked at an ad agency. He was an artist. That'd be the coolest job I could do art and still be creative, come up with ideas for ad campaigns. So when I was in art school and discussed what was really going on in the art world which is really not anything to do with art I wish people would realize that it's all about money. It's all about money and these groups of gallerists who have millions of dollars will find an artist that they can promote. They buy his stuff, they send it to Sotheby's, they auction it off and they stick it in a warehouse for a year. Then they bring it back to Sotheby's and auction it off again and if nobody buys it, they rebuy it themselves to keep the value of that going up. So that's what people look at in art today. It's billionaires and millionaires making money off of some artists that probably couldn't make it on his own.
Speaker 2:Guggenheim, the woman that was with Hemingway and all those people she's kind of the one that started all that. That. Art doesn't really have have to be good. Art doesn't have to be something that people look at and get joy. That's what I love about sculpture. I can go to a university and a person will be. I get calls huh, mr hair, I walk out of my way just to go buy your sculpture in the morning because it makes me feel good, that's I love. So if I'm making people feel good with my art. And then I see the way that figurative art has been condemned. And these guys were all hacks. Michelangelo and Rembrandt, these guys were all hacks. If you look at American art magazines, they're just a bunch of idiots who are just trying to make money off of art. Uh, that have no real soul for art, no feeling for art art can uplift.
Speaker 2:When I have these, uh, here's an interesting story. There was a. There was a guy that was a professor, a black guy. He was first professor at the university of south carolina after the War. Right, okay, so they want to commemorate this guy now. So they put out a call for artists. Okay, I was selected.
Speaker 2:I want to do a sculpture of the man. Okay, everybody loved the idea. But guess who? The art department. Oh, that's not a valid art form, that's all passe, that's all junk. What we really need is a laser light show, right, oh, my gosh, that's where their heads are at. And?
Speaker 2:But when I see pictures on the internet of people standing in front of Richard T Greener, nine feet tall black man, on the campus of the University of South Carolina. They always have the biggest smiles because they love the guy. Now he's inspiring you. Now you can be like him Exactly. He was just a person like you, he's not some kind of supernatural being. And then Frederick Douglass people sit beside him kind of supernatural being. And then Frederick Douglass people sit beside him. All these people that really made a difference in their lives can make a difference in our lives if we let people know who they were and what they did. And that person sitting there on the bench, frederick Douglass, is one of my favorites. People want to sit down next to him. Be like him. I love that. People want to sit down next to him. Be like him. I love that.
Speaker 1:So take your light show and hit the exit. It's a shame that that's where art has gone, because when I look at your sculptures, they take you to a moment in time. I mean, you can actually feel the presence of this person. That's how I felt when I saw the sculpture from the movie. Even when I'm standing in front of it, it felt like I was right there Well.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that I did. Mr Rogers for his hometown in Pennsylvania and his sister was there for the unveiling and she sat down on the bench next to him and kissed him on the cheek and said it is my brother.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness See, you get the details and the lines and all the things. I mean. You really do capture the person. I mean, what in you is able to do that? Maybe it's just the artist, I'm not sure. But you take it even further.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, for example, a historic person like George Washington. Okay, if I get commissioned to George Washington, the first thing that I'm going to do is go on the internet and find as many pictures of him as I can. Now, there wouldn't be any photographs, but there'll be paintings and drawings, and a few sculptures maybe. And if you look at him in each phase of his life, he doesn't look like the same person. So which one do you do? For me, it's how does he appear in the public mind? That's what I want to capture. When people think of George Washington, which one of these faces do they see in their head? So that's where I go with the portraiture, and I think probably that's why it connects with so many people, because it's kind of what's in the public mentality.
Speaker 1:Now, I don't know anything about sculpting and you really brought this thing in me that I want to know more about it. So I mean, what is the process? You get the commission, you get the job and then you go into your workshop.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? I really had no idea. I was going to be a sculptor.
Speaker 1:What did you see yourself doing that young John? What did you see him doing?
Speaker 2:I just wanted to create art that made people feel good. That's it. I wanted to get the same feeling that I got when I was looking through the World Book encyclopedia Wow, look at that, that is beautiful. Wow, look at that, that is so cool. Wow, look at that, that's artistry. It took someone with technical abilities and talent and skill and vision to do that. That's unlike most people.
Speaker 2:I had an ad agency. I was very successful. I was an art director for 20 some years and, oh, I was 49 years old and, uh, I was bored. Yeah, I told my wife, let's go into some art shows because maybe I got some real art in here, besides the advertising stuff, besides her logo at the airport, uh, besides the uh, all the uh artwork that I've done for general electric and big clients like that over the 20 years that I was an art director. Um, I just wanted to do something different. So I told my wife, let's go see some shows. Well, we went to seven shows that year. The last show was was in New York city at the Javits center, and I saw a guy I saw drawing and painting, which that's what I did as an art director for 25 years. I sat at my table with my 300 marker set and did renderings on uh, on paper for for advertising campaigns and television spots and things like that. Uh, but I saw a guy doing a sculpture and I said that's it, right there, man, that's cool, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:I went back to Charlotte, which was my ad agency was I rented a studio across the hall and at night, when the kids were all tucked in and their prayers were said and their homework was done, well, dad would go over and work until like one or two in the morning sculpting. That was the hard part because, uh, my studio and my agency are on the second floor of the shopping center in Charlotte and right out the window, while I'm sculpting, at one o'clock in the morning, is a place called the Irish Q bar, a rock and roll bar, and I thought, man, we're doing over here, I should be over there playing my drums, right, yes? But I, I kept it up and after about a month or two we had enough sculptures to get in the show. And then the advertising business in January is really dead because everybody spent all their money for the year and they haven't really decided what they're going to do for the coming year and I found this magazine called Sunshine Artists where I could see that in Florida during the wintertime there was an art show every weekend in some city in Florida. So I told my wife. I said you know what, let's do those shows. So I signed up. They accepted me right away because as an art director I had beautiful printed material of all my sculptures.
Speaker 2:First show was in Naples, florida. I drove down there. It was cold as hell, raining, oh man. It was cold as hell, raining, oh man. It was miserable. And my wife, after three days of that, said, okay, I'm right in the car taking the kids back to charlotte. We'll see you in three weeks, oh wow.
Speaker 2:My next show was in fort lauderdale. So I had to drive through the everglades, which I was familiar with because I grew up in north miami beach. I my music all over Miami. That's when Miami Beach was like the strip in Vegas Bright lights, beautiful hotels, all the biggest talent in the world coming there. I played all those hotels.
Speaker 2:I did that and so I knew my way around Florida and through the Everglades and I finally get through the Everglades to the Miami city limits and there's this big casino going up, miccosukee Resort. Okay, I said these guys, they need a warrior in front of that place. So I pulled in there and I said who do I want to talk to about a sculpture? They said well, you're going to have to go back about 40 miles to the village and talk to the tribal chairman. So I backtracked. I went in I said hey, I'm John here. I'm a sculptor in the area. I see you're building this beautiful new casino. I'd like to do a sculpture for your entrance. Can I talk to the chairman about that today? Oh, no, man, the chairman's a very important person. He won't be able to see you. Okay, he's booked up for two months. I said well, would you mind if I just sit here? Maybe he's got five minutes. You know, I just want to give him my brochure and introduce myself. Sit there all day if you want, but he won't be able to see you. So I did.
Speaker 2:I sat there all day and five o'clock came. So I drove out of there and I thought you know what? I don't have an art show until Saturday. I got the whole week. So I pulled over and I got a room in this little one down motel.
Speaker 2:Next morning I was back there. Hi, I'm John here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sit there all day if you want, but you won't be able to talk to him. So I sat there all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, all day Thursday. By Thursday, these tribal elders that were walking in back and forth out of this guy's office kept looking at me and say we're not going to talk to you. White man, what are you stupid? And I just smiled at him and I think to myself I'm here till five o'clock on Friday. Well, at 4.45 on Friday, guess who came out of her office? His secretary. Okay, chairman, we'll see you now. I thought you know.
Speaker 2:So I got in, I showed him my brochure. He had a couple of Native American pieces that I had done which he really liked, and I said well, I thought you'd like to sculpt her for your beautiful new casino. And he says well, we wanted to sculpt her, but we couldn't find one. I said, well, I've been sitting in your waiting room for five days now. He says, yes, and you're the most. He stuck his finger right in my face yes, you're the most persistent person I've ever met.
Speaker 2:We sat down and talked for about 10, 15 minutes. I told him I'd get back to him with a proposal. So I went to Fort Lauderdale, did my show Friday night, saturday night, sunday night I was at Kinko's place putting together these 12-page fully illustrated and detailed proposals, eight copies for each one for one of the tribal council members. And when morning came, guess who's sitting there? When he walked in I was the last person he saw on Friday, first for it, and he did a double take kind of irritated, and he goes what are you doing here now? I said well, I told you I'd get back to you with a proposal. He said already. I said let me tell you something, my friend, I'm not the hair that lost the race. Oh, wow, that's good.
Speaker 2:He got a he got a chuckle because I've got a pretty good sense of humor. He got a chuckle out of that. We sat down and I walked out of there with a check for $115,000 and my first monumental commission. I was on cloud nine for about a half an hour until I realized, oh my God, I don't know how to do those big things. I'm doing little stuff like this, you know. Yeah, I got through it, it worked out and that kind of an attitude has really helped me a lot.
Speaker 2:When I was in art school in Columbus, I had a part-time job, worked at a hotel at night, put myself through art school playing my drums. I get a call from the union. Hey, this big RCA recording group's coming into Columbus for two weeks and they're looking for a drummer. So back then you had to be in the union. Okay, I have a union card for miami, new york and in vegas, because I played all over and I was very well known because I'm a great drummer. When I play, people get up and dance. I got you know it's in me, it's, uh, same as the art thing. I just my mom said I knew you were going to be a drummer because you used to sit on the sand pileile and beat on the oatmeal box. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I went in there, I got in line. There were eight drummers in line. I was number six and I was there for over an hour while the other guys auditioned. They were auditioning, they had a huge orchestra with an orchestra leader. So after drummer number five got down, the orchestra leader came over to the three of us and said well, thanks for coming, guys, but we got the guy we want.
Speaker 2:I said you got the guy you want. What do you mean? You got the guy that you want. There's three of us here. We could blow that guy away. You don't know that you should let us play.
Speaker 2:I got to hear here's my letter from the union. You're going to audition. He goes. I'm sorry that this is over audition. He goes. I'm sorry that this is over, this audition is over.
Speaker 2:And he walked away from me and I looked at his as he walked away from me. It really got me irritated. Here's another guy treating me like I'm nothing. I looked at him walking that way and I looked up on the stage and saw those drums and I made a beeline for that drum set on there. I started playing. I did like a two minute drum solo. I could see the guy. His face just got red, it just went up like that and he came raging over and one of the singers put his hand on his shoulder. He goes hey, wait a minute, man. This guy said, pretty good, what fun to play.
Speaker 2:So I played, I, I, and then I got back down and I went back. I got in line, I stood there and I saw him over there in their little huddle and the guy comes over and he says well, you were right, we didn't have the guy we want, we want you. So that's one of the reasons that I've been able to survive, Because I don't let people put me down and I don't put other people down. People get a thing about I'm going to put that guy in his place. I don't have that With me. You don't have a place. Your place is you. I just treat you as an individual, like I'd like you to treat me with respect.
Speaker 1:Well, your drums took you places, because I also heard that you played with Jimi Hendrix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was absolutely the kindest, nicest, most generous, soft-spoken person I've ever met in my entire life. I love that guy. That's amazing, what a wonderful experience.
Speaker 2:Well, it kind of was and wasn't. I was playing my drums in Miami. I was a well-known drummer down there for a long time and I was 17 years old and I got a call from this band in Miami. They had sold a. Miami was a huge rock and roll market. There were clubs everywhere back in the 60s. There were hundreds of bands and you could sell 100,000 records in Miami that's how many people were there and there were 50 clubs everywhere. You can always go and get a gig. Um, so I, I did that for a long time. Uh, so that this big band called me and said well, we're going to new york for the summer to cut an album we got signed at cbs and we'd like you to be our drummer. So I said, went with them. Well, the girl in the band was like probably 19 or 20 and she kind of had a thing for me. I think that's why they picked me out as the drummer.
Speaker 2:Besides, I was the best drummer in Miami period. And so we went to New York. Cbs got us engaged. We worked in the East Village. We did Columbia Pictures after party for a big movie. We worked at CBS in the daytime and played our music around New York at night. And one night we're in the club and the guy our guy from CBS comes sits at a table. And here's the singer. Her mom, from Miami, is there with some big, chunky looking guy. Okay, right. So I went over to the table and he says oh, you know, uh, the CBS, yeah, we're, we're going to, we're going to take you guys out to dinner after the, after the show. And we got a little when I talked to you about the, you know, about the album and all that. So they took us to dinner and basically just fired me and the bass player because the mother wanted me out of the band. She called me a penniless sleepwalker.
Speaker 1:So somebody else now putting you down, yeah always, always.
Speaker 2:So I kind of okay, I get it. So we got fired, I don't know. And you want to go meet him? I said never heard of him. He goes. Well, nobody has, but everybody's going to.
Speaker 2:So we find out the hotel he was. We went up and knocked on his door in his room. And who answers the door? Two of the Isley brothers. Oh my gosh, hey, you guys are working an album at CVS. You guys are playing down in the village. Yeah, we know all the talent that comes into town.
Speaker 2:They told us Okay, what are you doing now? I said, well, you know, the band broke up and I'm going to spend August in New York and then I'm probably going to go back to Miami and finish high school. And you know what the guy said to me what Did you consider? Staying in New York and being our drummer? I thought, well, isley Brothers. I didn't know much about them. I knew my mom listened to them. So, anyway, jimmy came up. He was the nicest and he was very soft-spoken. And I asked one of the Isley Brothers. I said why is Jimmy so soft-spoken? He said well, if you were a young black kid growing up in Seattle back in the 40s and 50s did not speak unless you were spoken to, and he carried that through his adult life. Okay, but what a sweet, just a kind man.
Speaker 2:So we went out, we partied. There was more drugs in that thing that you could even count Right, so that was a part of it. When they say, if you said you lived in the 60s but you can't remember and you remember it, you really don't, cause I, I don't remember a lot of that. I remember Jamel, with Jimmy, we went up to a big skyscraper where the rascals had a practice spot. There was all kinds of great musicians from all over New York, people that you never heard of, and we just went around New York city and went from club to club and jam to jam and all night and we just had the greatest, the greatest time.
Speaker 2:And, um, I saw the guy came to Cleveland because I, after that summer in New York, I decided to just uh leave Miami, get rid of the music business. Okay, they go move in with my dad who lived in Ohio, and go to Ohio state and follow my art. So that's what I did. Uh, but while in, while in Ohio, I got uh a lot of gigs from a lot of other musicians that were traveling through the state, so I'm fairly well known. Even right now I can go to San Francisco at a place called the saloon Uh. My buddy, dave Workman, plays out there all the time, and last time I came out there and sat in with him he said just call me the next time you're coming into town I'll book you as my drummer for the night. So that's what I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 1:You know, I always have this thing and you've been touching on it the entire time is, 90% of success is showing up and you just keep showing up and showing up. And even well, when you sat there for five days and waited for him to come out, I mean that is persistence. But I mean that's what you're describing here and you were in the right place at the right time with Simon and Garfunkel. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2:Well, we were. We had the same A&R man, which is arrangements and repertoire, same A&R man, which is arrangements and repertoire. And we came in to go to do a session and they were still in there. So you know, they were taking up our time slot. So I wasn't crazy about that. I really didn't never liked Art Garfunkel. I'd never seen the guy smile. There's always some kind of problem with that guy.
Speaker 2:Now, Paul Simon was pretty nice but they were going over a song for their Bookends album and they didn't like what the studio drummers at CBS did and they couldn't figure out. It was a very unusual song with different tempos and rhythms in it. And Paul Simon just looked at me and goes you're a drummer, give us some ideas. I said, okay, they had a little tape player. I said okay, they had a little tape player. I said, you know, run the tape for me a couple of times and then I laid down all the stuff for that song and it's on the album. But I never got a credit. I doubt if folks ever even remember me, because who was I? Some, nobody, drummer for a group from Miami that never really made it. So that's okay. I had those experiences and I cherish them, and there's more to come, hopefully.
Speaker 1:You keep referring to yourself as, like this, nobody and like you know, people have put you down all your life, but I think that, even though you sometimes hear other people's definitions of you, you still have created your own definitions of yourself, would you say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I never really thought about it that way, but I've kind of come through this with you know my own picture of me, and what is that compared to how? What other people's voices?
Speaker 1:have been in your head.
Speaker 2:I want people to say when I'm gone he was a great dad, okay, he was a great grandpa. He's a great, great, great grandpa, which I am a great grandpa. Okay, he did something with his life that benefits other people. My artwork, that's around, that. People see it. They, they're, they're, uh, they're motivated by it. You know, they, they, they get enjoyment out of seeing it. They, uh, it touches a part of them that maybe they didn't even know it existed. Because who goes and looks at art and goes oh man, I look at all art, I love, I love, I like all art. Uh, to me, if you're an artist and you can make a living in this environment, more power to you. And if you're doing the bunny rabbit balloon, that's your thing, but that's all you got. I'm not interested in seeing more balloon animals. You know what I'm saying, right? I always challenge myself to. Even when I was a drummer, I tried not to play the same lick twice in a night, everything playing different. And I tried to do that with my art too, that's so amazing.
Speaker 1:How did you go from that kid that just got up there on that stage and started playing to get the people in the room to hear you and give you the gig, to how who you became. How did you get from that to that? Just keep doing that. You just kept showing up.
Speaker 2:You just kept going up, be persistent One. I've been married twice. My first wife ran away with a motorcycle mechanic, and my second wife Now we're getting ready to celebrate our 48th wedding anniversary. Oh, congratulations. She's been with me all that time. She's helped me a lot. She really has.
Speaker 1:Having someone genuinely care and be in your care, because she came from a real family.
Speaker 2:She came from a real family, you know. Her uncle and aunt got killed in a car wreck so her dad took in her two nieces Okay, Right, so five kids in a two in a two bedroom apartment, raised them up, that kind of a thing. And they, you know they were, they were, uh, proud Catholics and very religious and, you know, principled. And her father was a great guy. He had a saying, and I still stick with it Always do what's right and you can't go wrong. Right, that's it. I just keep that under my belt and whenever I'm in a situation I think of that. That's it.
Speaker 1:I just keep that under my belt and whenever I'm in a situation, I think of that. Yeah, you had a lot of wrong done to you with five kids living in a basement as you start.
Speaker 2:Oh, six kids living in a basement. You know I mean you A one-room schoolhouse. That's not a big basement.
Speaker 1:Who was living upstairs? Can I ask, because I don't?
Speaker 2:know my dad was. My dad was working three jobs. One of those jobs as a carpenter, and he was trying to finish the upstairs, uh, so that we could live upstairs. But, um, my mom ran around on him. He never knew it. Uh, her and her boyfriend said, hey, we got to get Archie that's my dad's name, archie he's passed away now. So she, we got to get Archie out of town. So we can you know we can, we can be free to party. Let's get him a job overseas. So they looked through the newspaper. They found a job for a carpenter in Thule, greenland, building an Air Force base on the Arctic Circle, for a year. Sign up for a year. You get $1,200 a month, which in 1955 was a lot of money. It's three or four times what he could make working three jobs in Iowa. So he went off for a year and when he got back, mom was gone, the money was gone and the kids were in the basement by themselves. Now what are we going to do with them? So that was the situation.
Speaker 1:So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2:That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my grandma took the baby, my one aunt took the two girls and nobody wanted the three boys.
Speaker 1:So the three of you.
Speaker 2:In the Linn County Iowa children's home, formerly known as the home for the friendless. Oh my goodness, and that was bad. But you know what? I broke the bank twice in Monopoly when I was at that orphanage and they made us work outside and do yard work and stuff like that. That place was the best looking place after I got done with it. Why do I believe that? My thing is my mother hated us. Why do I believe that my thing is my mother hated us.
Speaker 2:When I was a drummer at 14, playing Miami Beach, I'd drive my drums into the house at two in the morning and there'd be a double sink with dishes piled up as far as you could see, with a note on there that said John, do these or else, because nobody else would do it. My older brother was a gold brick. He never did a damn thing. I was the one that did everything because I was super obedient. I didn't want to get beaten. I did whatever I had to do to not get beaten. But when I got in there I started doing those dishes. I cleaned that whole kitchen spotless. I was up like for two hours. I said if I'm going to do it, it's going to be the best that can be done and that's just kind of my attitude, whether it's cleaning the floor, painting a house or doing art or playing.
Speaker 1:You can't teach that? I don't think, because there are so many kids and people today that really want things done for them and they don't. They want to get things for free. So you know and and what I really like about what and and I was exactly the same way. I mean I was a scrapper, I mean I did everything I could to make it and nobody I just I just go after the hustle because I learned really young that I couldn't rely on anybody. If I was going to do something, be something, create something, I had to rely on myself. And you learned that really, really young as well. So you were that little little kid how old were you in the basement when you were looking at those world book encyclopedias, would you say?
Speaker 2:Well, by then I was probably. Uh well, let's see.
Speaker 1:Catholic school, first grade six six years old and you knew then that you wanted to get in that book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew then because I I I admired the, the artwork that was in there so much that I wanted to be with that group of people so you didn't start sculpting.
Speaker 1:Until what year? Was it 2000 or something?
Speaker 2:like that. I was 49 years old. I had my head in the sea. It was doing really well, right, but I was just bored, right. I wanted to do something else. People go, well, how come you're not into sculpture Boredom?
Speaker 1:So I mean, you held on to those images in your head all those years and it still was inside of you and you just wanted to start creating that. I mean, that's an absolute beautiful story.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just kind of. You know the way I was born. I think I got the art G. That's what I think Now.
Speaker 1:you did say to me in a conversation that unless you have this absolute burning desire inside of you to do this, don't even bother.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh, my son or my daughter, they want to major in art, and you know, at the university of so-and-so. What do you? What do you think? I tell them don't do it, because the art world, uh, and the music world, you have to create your own clients. There's nobody out there waiting for you to come on the scene. Right, you gotta go for it, you gotta go, you have to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so unless you've got this thing, like I like I've had my whole life is burning inside. Remember that movie, alien, where that thing popped up out of that guy yeah, I've had that my whole life, right in here, kind of like pushing me. You know, john, do something, get up, don't sit. Make something, draw something, paint something, build something. When I was a kid, I took the lawnmower and I, when I drove the lawnmower around all the bushes out in the back by the woods and I took scraps of siding and made yield signs and stop signs and I had my little car that I would drive around in there, like five, six years old. So that's kind of been in me all this time. I'm glad it is, because it's the only thing that's helped me to survive.
Speaker 1:And you know, one of the other things that I've heard you say through this whole entire thing is that you want to create joy in other people. Yes, and the heaviness. Isn't that our purpose for being here?
Speaker 2:I say that all the time. Isn't that our purpose?
Speaker 1:It absolutely is.
Speaker 2:My purpose.
Speaker 1:Isn't that our purpose? It absolutely is my purpose, yeah, and I feel, and I had felt very young, that that was my purpose as well, and I was silenced and silenced and told many different ways that I didn't matter or whatever. And so you know, here I am doing this podcast and I've done different art and I've been a journalist and different things, and I really do believe that when you come from those kind of beginnings that we've got so much pain within us to offer to other people, which will turn it into joy, you know, I mean, we just offer such a different perspective in life and we want to show people the joy inside of us instead of the pain that we went through. One of the things that I wondered was do you take the pain from your beginnings and put them into your art? Put it into your art? No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2:The artwork really isn't. I don't view the artwork as an extension of myself. I'm creating. I'm creating that specific thing. It has its own life. Okay, that's. The art has really not much to do with me and my painting. Once I create that one, it stands on its own. You know, and I just visited some relatives in South Carolina yesterday and took two sculptures that I had in my warehouse to give to family as gifts. Those people really appreciated it. You know, a little sculpture of Clifford Brown the trumpet player. Clifford Brown, the trumpet player. I left with my nephew because he was from a mixed family and he's the only guy I ever knew that had a Clifford Brown album because his dad listened to Clifford Brown. I said this guy needs the little muck pack that won the commission in Wilmington, delaware, my eight foot statue of Clifford Brown. But there are, you know, clifford Brown, great musician, right up my alley. I love to. I want to do a Hendrix. That guy was fantastic.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I want to do that. You know I did a great Obama for the Mecklenburg Democratic Party. Those people really inspire me, you know.
Speaker 1:Have you ever gone to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland or said to them you know, I want to do a sculpture for you guys.
Speaker 2:No, when I left Miami and went to Ohio to go to Ohio State and live with my dad. I was at home one day and I got a call from a girl in Cleveland. She goes, john, your picture's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I said, really, she goes, yeah, jimi Hendrix concert. And I remembered when I came back from New York he was in Cleveland a few months later and a bunch of my friend, my brother's friends actually I didn't have a car. I wanted to go see him, so we drove, we drove up to Cleveland to see the guy and I got out of my seat and went, kind of went up to the to the stage, kind of towards the end of the concert, and he saw me. He said, hey, man, you know you don't remember my name, but you remember my face so at the end of that concert uh he.
Speaker 2:He said uh, you know, can I give you something, because he's always giving things away. When I was in his hotel room, a photographer came to the door and admired his moccasins that he was wearing, those hippie kind of things went off. He goes here, you want them? He's to give it to the guy as moccasins. He's given cars. He's bought new cars for strangers, people that he never met. The guy's got just a generous soul.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, but you didn't want to create anything for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Have you ever thought of? Well?
Speaker 2:you know what it's? Such a huge can't get into that place. You know, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm just they're concerned, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I'm not anybody in rock and roll well, yeah, but you're a drummer and a sculptor, so I just wondered well, uh, I never really thought about, thought about approaching that, you know, because really in the art world, I mean I'm a nobody, you want another nobody, art versus artist, drummer in the thing.
Speaker 2:So I really haven't, but yeah that's.
Speaker 1:That's a thought. Like I'm Jimi Hendrix, you could do one. I've seen. I've gone into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I've seen the Jimi Hendrix exhibit and it's amazing Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I need to go up there.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, now how in the world did you see, I don't know, did you do other busts of people other than Dick Van Dyke? Because I found that picture of you standing with him with?
Speaker 2:his bust, Dick Van Dyke, because I found that picture of you standing with him with his bust. I was in the foundry in LA working on the Olympic monument and Dick's kind of an artistic guy. He knew the guy that owned the foundry and the guy that owned the foundry told him that hey, the sculptor that's doing the Olympic thing is here. So Dick Van Dyke actually came down to meet me.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, and then that was it.
Speaker 2:I mean, he asked you to do that when he walked in I said oh my God, it's Dick Van Dyke. What's he doing here? You know, first thing I said I'm going to tell everybody that I just met Dick Van Dyke, you know. You know, I'm going to tell everybody, I just met the sculptor for the U? S Olympic team. That's how cool he was.
Speaker 2:So he's asked me if I did portraits. I said yeah, so I I did that little portrait of him. I took it to his uh and then I had to uh before I did the casting. I want to make sure he that he liked the sculpture Right, so you can take pictures of sculpture but it doesn't really.
Speaker 2:You don't get the sense and the feel of what it really is like. So I thought, you know, I got to put this thing on an airplane and go out there and get his okay out before I have it cast. I took that thing on an airplane, flew it out there, went to his house. He loved it and then we did the casting and I delivered it to his house in Malibu. He invited me up there and showed me around his little tiny bungalow he lives in. His wife was there. When I got to his house he was out on the street, talking to these little kids in the back of a station wagon hey kids, what's going on? Little Bobby, you're one of their names. This is the nicest. He's another person that I've just been honored just to meet.
Speaker 1:I've admired that guy my whole life, well, and I have as well, and he's in his 90s, you know, and I mean he's just still moving and doing things. And one of the best quotes that I ever heard him say when they asked him you know, why can you still dance and do these things?
Speaker 2:you know, he's like you, just got to keep moving and man, I tell all my friends you know I'm going to be 75 in a month and all my friends, most of them, are retired I go what are you retired for? You gotta keep moving. Get off the couch. Uh, one of my friends oh my god, I made so much since I saw you two years ago. I'm this and I'm that. What are you doing with your time? What do you do with your time? Get a job. I told him Get a job. You've got to stay busy or you're going to vegetate and just fade away. You want to do that, not me. I'm not fade away. You want to do that? Not me. I'm not fading away, I'm going out with a boom.
Speaker 1:Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more that we can give back to the world. And you know, it's really sad that some people feel that they've reached a certain age and they're done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, when you've worked a job that you really never liked I mean, I came in a 40-year period where nobody ever really got a raise. That's the time that I grew up. 40 years you really did not get hardly much of a raise. Yeah, the last ad agency I worked in before I started my own ad agency, we had nine art directors in there and three of them got fired. And then there was a salary freeze. Nobody was going to get a raise for at least a year.
Speaker 2:When they told me that, I walked into my boss's office and I said I want a raise today or I will not be back tomorrow. Okay, we just fired three guys and you're coming in here asking for a raise. I said yeah, who's your number one producer? Me. Who's going to be doing all their work? Me. So I want to raise, and I want to raise today or I'm not going to come back tomorrow. You'll have to find somebody else. And Well, at the end of the day, he came back and he goes. I can't believe it. The old man said OK.
Speaker 1:You are absolutely amazing. I love your spirit. How in the world did you?
Speaker 2:land the Olympic job. Well, it was a senator from North Carolina that was the biggest Olympic individual sponsor, I guess you know, giving them money. He was a track star at UNC, chapel Hill before the blacks were allowed in the college. Ok, when, when, when blacks were finally allowed to come in, all those records went by the wayside. Yeah, but he loved the amateur sports and he was a supporter of the Olympic Committee. So they asked him to build a new strength training center out there in Colorado Springs at their training center. And he called me up and he said John, I want you to come out. We're going to build a strength training center. I want you to do a sculpture for the front of it. So I went out there.
Speaker 2:This was a trip. This guy's name is Erwin Belt. I don't know if you ever heard of Belt department stores, but there's mostly a Southern store. They have 300 and some department stores. Huge outfit, huge outfit. So I went out there.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, we went over the, over the building and what they wanted, and then they said they wanted us, uh, a sculpture with the theme of strength. So then they all took us to dinner at the Broadmoor, which is a, you know, historic, uh, old, big money, old money hotel. And uh, we sat around, uh had dinner and after the dinner, uh, one of the sponsor's sons stood up and he goes my dad has given you a million dollars to build this building and now he's going to give you more money to put a sculpture in front of it and you're serving us this cheap wine. I want the good stuff, stuff. So they started bringing in this three and four hundred dollar bottle of wine stuff and everybody started uh drinking. Now I don't drink wine, I'm a beer drinker, and that's another way you get put down at all these big places.
Speaker 2:So to keep from being discriminated against as a beer drink, a lowly beer drinker, I came up at one of those gatherings. I went to the bartender. I said take a martini glass, fill it with beer and put three of them, huge olives, in there on a stick. I'm walking around. Hey, what's that? That's a beer, teeny, so I'm not crap anymore after that. That's uh. So his son said that.
Speaker 2:So now they're saying okay, well, what, what, what, what can we come up with? Here's what we thought about Would you like one guy on a bench with a towel around his neck because he just lifted a weight and another guy lifting a weight. Okay, well, that's okay. I said you know what? Though, what do you think of when? What's the one visual that comes to mind when you think about strength? To me, it's Atlas, right to mind. When you think about strength, to me, it's Atlas, right, it held up the universe. How about we have an Atlas figure Instead of an Atlas? We have four Olympic athletes and we can have a female for the Pan American Games. We can have an African-American guy for the US Olympic team. We can have an ancient Greek, which was the original, and we can have the Paralympics, the original and we can have the paralympics. That's, that's it, and they could be holding up the world, holding the world up on their shoulders oh, that's a great idea.
Speaker 2:Uh, is there anything you could do with the, the olympic federations? I said, well, how many are there? 45? Yeah, I'll sculpt their logos and relief and run them around the base of the sculpture. I sculpted it out on a napkin and showed them that. And so then the donor says well, John, how much do you think that's going to cost? You want to do it life-size? I said life-size, that's Mickey Mouse. You can't do this life-size. It has to be at least twice life-size and it's probably going to run you a little over a million dollars. So you know where the guy goes. Let's do it. Oh, my gosh, Everybody was all excited here.
Speaker 2:We had the thing and we had our dinner and drinks. And after the dinner and drinks his oldest son came up to me and he said you're spending our inheritance. I said what said you're spending our inheritance? I said what? Yeah, you're spending our inheritance. Our dad's giving you all these projects. You're spending our inheritance. I said what's an inheritance? He said well, it's the way you get left when your relative dies. I said, well, is your father still alive? Yeah, so then he got.
Speaker 2:When I said that he got really mad and he goes, I could go out right now and get a dozen guys that do what you do, Right, Just like that. And I said, oh, you know, you're probably right, you could find a lot of guys out there that could do what I'm doing. Can I? Can I ask you a question? Okay, have you ever been to Rome? Yeah, have you ever been to the Vatican? Yeah, I've been to the Vatican. Have you ever been to the Sistine Chapel and seen that beautiful ceiling in there? Oh, yeah, I've been there. I said who painted that? He goes, well, everybody knows that Michelangelo. I said, okay, now, who put up the money for the painting?
Speaker 1:This is the end of part one of John Hare from Orphanage to Sculptor. The story will continue in part two and you will not want to miss a word. This is so inspiring and it proves that life is not over in your 70s and you can do anything you put your mind to, with hard work, persistence and a burning inside to succeed. Tune in next week to hear part two of John Hare's story. We will see you next week.
