.png)
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
From Orphanage to Olympic Strength: The Inspiring Journey of Sculptor Jon Hair Part 2
"From Orphanage to Olympic Strength Part 2" continues Jon Hair's remarkable journey from a challenging childhood to becoming a celebrated artist and musician. Growing up in an orphanage and living in a basement with his six siblings, Jon faced significant hardships. Yet, through creativity, hard work, and the support of his second wife, he transformed these adversities into incredible achievements.
In this episode, Jon discusses how art became a powerful force in his life. With over 170 public art commissions, he has sculpted iconic figures like President Obama, Mr. Rogers, Richard T. Greener, and Frederick Douglass. His works are cherished on college campuses and around the world, including pieces in Beijing, Shanghai, and the Emmys Hall of Fame. As the Official Olympic Sculptor, he created the masterpiece "Olympic Strength," a testament to his passion and the joy his art brings to many.
The episode also highlights Jon's early development of inner strength. At just nine years old, he learned to think creatively and hustle for what he wanted, selling sandwiches and repainting signs to earn money. His determination took him from Miami to San Francisco, where he thrived as both an artist and a drummer, eventually sharing the stage with big names and sculpting his way to greatness.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and proof that with determination and perseverance, overcoming adversity is not only possible but can lead to extraordinary success.
Follow us on Tina and Ann's website https://www.realtalktinaann.com/
Facebook: Real Talk with Tina and Ann | Facebook
or at: podcastrealtalktinaann@gmail.com or annied643@gmail.com
Apple Podcasts: Real Talk with Tina and Ann on Apple Podcasts
Spotify: Real Talk with Tina and Ann | Podcast on Spotify
Amazon Music: Real Talk with Tina and Ann Podcast | Listen on Amazon Music
iHeart Radio: Real Talk with Tina and Ann Podcast | Listen on Amazon Music
Castro: Real Talk with Tina and Ann (castro.fm)
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne and Tina will be back soon. This is part two of John Hare's interview from Orphanage to Olympic Strength. This is an amazing episode and if you did not hear part one, please go to part one, either on Real Talk with Tina and Ann, on Facebook or realtalktinaanncom, and you can actually catch all of our episodes there. Or you can listen to us on several radio stations that we have listed or a couple television stations. Thank you so much again, and this is part two of John Hare's interview.
Speaker 2:My artwork that's around that people see it. They're motivated by it. You know they get enjoyment out of seeing it. It touches a part of them that maybe they didn't even know existed. Because who goes and looks at art and goes oh man, I look at all art, I like all art. To me, if you're an artist and you can make a living in this environment, more power to you. I always challenge myself to. Even when I was a drummer, I tried not to play the same lick twice in a night. Everything clean, different, and I tried to do that with my art too everything clean, different, and I tried to do that with my art too.
Speaker 1:That's so amazing. How, how did you go from that kid that was just got up there on that stage and started playing to get the people in the room to hear you and give you the gig, to how, who you became? How did you get from that to that? Just keep that you just kept showing up.
Speaker 2:You just kept Keep showing up. Be persistent. I've been married twice. My first wife ran away with a motorcycle mechanic. My second wife. Now we're getting ready to celebrate our 48th wedding anniversary oh, congratulations. She's been with me all that time. She's helped me a lot. She really has.
Speaker 1:Having someone genuinely care, and she's been with me all that time.
Speaker 2:She's helped me a lot. She really has, Having someone genuinely care and be in your corner, Because she came from a real family. She came from a real family. You know. Her uncle and aunt got killed in a car wreck so her dad took in her two nieces Okay, Right, so five kids in a two-bedroom apartment raised them up, that kind of a thing and they were proud Catholics and very religious and principled. And her father was a great guy. He had a saying and I still stick with it Always do what's right and you can't go wrong. Right, that's it. I just keep that under my belt and whenever I'm in a situation I think of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had a lot of wrong done to you with five kids living in a basement. As you start six, oh, six kids living in a basement, you know I mean you a one-room schoolhouse.
Speaker 2:That's not a big basement who was living upstairs.
Speaker 1:Can I ask, because I'm really wondering my dad was.
Speaker 2:My dad was working three jobs. One of those jobs as a carp, and he was trying to finish the upstairs so that we could live upstairs. But my mom ran around on him. He never knew it. Her and her boyfriend said hey, we got to get Archie that's my dad's name, archie he's passed away now. So she, we got to get Archie out of town. So we can you know we can we can be free to party. Let's get him a job overseas. So they looked through the newspaper. They found a job for a carpenter in Thule, greenland, building an Air Force base on the Arctic Circle, for a year. Sign up for a year. You get $1,200 a month, which in 1955 was a lot of money. It's three or four times what he could make working three jobs in Iowa. So he went off for a year and when he got back, mom was gone, the money was gone and the kids were in the basement by themselves. Now what are we going to do with them? So that was the situation.
Speaker 1:So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2:That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my grandma took the baby, my one aunt took the two girls and nobody wanted the three boys.
Speaker 1:So the three of you.
Speaker 2:In the Linn County Iowa children's home, formerly known as the home for the friendless. Oh my goodness, and that was bad. But you know what? I broke the bank twice in Monopoly when I was at that orphanage and they made us work outside and do yard work and stuff like that. That place was the best looking place after I got done with it. Why do I believe that? Oh my God, my mother hated us.
Speaker 2:When I was a drummer at 14, playing Miami Beach, I dragged my drums into the house at two in the morning and there'd be a double sink with dishes piled up as far as you could see, with a note on there that said John, do these or else, Because nobody else would do it. My older brother was a gold brick. He never did a damn thing. I was the one that did everything because I was super obedient. I didn't want to get beaten. I did whatever I had to do to not get beaten. But when I got in there I started doing those dishes get beaten. But when I got in there I started doing those dishes. I cleaned that whole kitchen spotless. I was up like for two hours. I said if I'm going to do it, it's going to be the best that can be done, and that's just kind of my attitude, whether it's cleaning the floor, painting a house or doing art or playing.
Speaker 1:You can't teach that? I don't think, because there are so many kids and people today that really want things done for them and they want to get things for free. So you know, and what I really like about and I was exactly the same way, I mean I was a scrapper, I mean I did everything I could to make it and nobody. I just go after the hustle, because I learned really young that I couldn't rely on anybody. If I was going to do something, be something, create something, I had to rely on myself. And you learned that really really young as well. So you were that little little kid. How old were you in the basement when you were looking at those World Book encyclopedias, would you say? Well, by then, I was probably.
Speaker 2:Well, let's see Catholic school, first grade six.
Speaker 1:Six years old, and you knew then that you wanted to get in that book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew then Because I admired the artwork that was in there so much that I wanted to be with that group of people.
Speaker 1:So you didn't start sculpting. Until what year? Was it 2000 or something like that?
Speaker 2:I was 49 years old. I had my ad agency. It was doing really well, right, but I was just bored.
Speaker 1:So I mean, you held on to those images in your head all those years and it still was inside of you and you just wanted to start creating that. I mean, that's an absolute beautiful story.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of you know the way I was born. I think I got the art G.
Speaker 1:That's what I think Now you did say to me in a conversation that unless you have this absolute burning desire inside of you to do this, don't even bother.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh, my son or my daughter, they want to major in art, and you know, at the University of so-and-so. What do you think? I tell them don't do it, because the art world and the music world you have to create your own clients. Unless you've got this thing like I've had my whole life this burning inside. Remember that movie Alien where that thing popped up out of that guy? I've had that my whole life right in here, kind of like pushing me. You know, john, do something, get up, don't sit. Make something, draw something, paint something, build something. When I was a kid I took the lawnmower and I, when I drove the lawnmower around all the bushes, out in the back by the woods and I took scraps of siding and made yield signs and stop signs and I had my little car that I would drive around in there, like five, six years old. So that's kind of been in me all this time.
Speaker 1:I'm glad it is, because it's the only thing that's helped me to survive and you know one of the other things that I've heard you say through this whole entire thing is that you want to create joy in other people. Yes, and the heaviness. Isn't that our purpose for being here?
Speaker 2:I say that all the time. Isn't that our purpose? It absolutely is.
Speaker 1:My purpose, yeah, and I feel, and I had felt very young, that that was my purpose as well, and I was silenced and silenced and told many different ways that I didn't matter or whatever. And so you know, here I am doing this podcast and I've done different art and I've been a journalist and different things. And I really do believe that when you come from those kind of beginnings that we've got so much pain within us to offer to other people, which will turn it into joy, you know, I mean, we just offer such a different perspective in life and we want to show people the joy inside of us instead of the pain that we went through. One of the things that I wondered was do you take the pain from your beginnings and put them into your art? Put it into your art? No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2:The artwork really isn't. I don't view the artwork as an extension of myself. I'm creating that specific thing. It has its own life. Okay, that's the art. Once I create that one piece, it stands on its own. You know, and I just visited some relatives in South Carolina yesterday and took two sculptures that I had in my warehouse to give to family as gifts. Those people really appreciated it. You know, a little sculpture of Clifford Brown, the trumpet player I left with my nephew because he was from a mixed family and he's the only guy I ever knew that had a Clifford Brown album because his dad listened to Clifford Brown. I said this film needs the little maquette that won the commission in Wilmington, delaware, my eight-foot statue of Clifford Brown. But Clifford Brown, great musician, right up my alley. I'd love to. I want to do a Hendrix. That guy was fantastic. Oh my gosh, you know what I want to do that. You know I did a great Obama for the Mecklenburg Democratic Party. Those people really inspire me.
Speaker 1:How in the world did you see, I don't know, did you do other busts of people other than Dick Van Dyke, because I found that picture of you standing with him with his bust?
Speaker 2:I was in the foundry in LA working on the Olympic monument and he Dick's kind of an artistic guy. He knew the guy that owned the foundry. And the guy that owned the foundry told him that hey, the sculptor that's doing the Olympic thing is here.
Speaker 1:So, Dick, Van Dyke actually came down to meet me. That's amazing. And then that was it. I mean he asked you to do that.
Speaker 2:When he walked in I said, oh my God, it's Dick Van Dyke. What's he doing here? You know, first thing I said I'm going to tell everybody that I just met Dick Van van die. You know what he said? I'm gonna tell everybody I just met the sculptor for the US Olympic team. That's how, that's how cool he was. So I was gonna be all the money.
Speaker 2:He's asked me if I did portraits. I said yeah. So I I did that little portrait of him. I took it to his uh and then I had to uh before I did the casting. I want to make sure he that he liked the sculpture, right.
Speaker 2:So you, you can take pictures of sculpture but it doesn't really. You don't get the sense and the feel of what it really is like. So I thought, you know, I got to put this thing on an airplane and go out there and get his okay on it before I have it cast. I took that thing on an airplane, flew it out there, went to his house. He loved it and then we did the casting and I delivered it to his house in Malibu. He invited me up there and showed me around his little tiny bungalow he lives in. His wife was there. When I got to his house, he was out on the street talking to these little kids in the back of a station wagon. Hey kids, what's going on? Little Bobby or whatever their names were, he's the nicest. He's another person that I've just been honored just to meet Right. I've admired that guy my whole life.
Speaker 1:Well, and I have as well, and he's in his 90s, you know, and I mean he's just still moving and doing things. And one of the best quotes that I ever heard him say when they asked him you know why can you still dance and do these things? You know he's like you, just got to keep moving.
Speaker 2:And, man, I tell all my friends you know I'm going to be 75 in a month and all my friends, most of them, are retired I go, what are you retired for? You got to keep moving. Get off the couch. One of my friends oh my God, I've aged so much since I saw you two years ago. I'm this and I'm that. What are you doing with your time? What do you do with your time? Get a job. I told them, get a job. You got to stay busy or you're going to vegetate and just fade away. You want to do that, not me. I'm not fading away, I'm going out with a boom.
Speaker 1:Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more that we can give back to the world. And you know, it's really sad that some people feel that they've reached a certain age and they're done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, when you've worked a job that you really never liked mean I, I came 40 year period where nobody ever really got a raise. That's the time that I grew up. 40 years you really did not get hardly much of a raise. Yeah, the last ad agency I worked in before I started my own ad agency, we had nine art directors in there and three of them got fired. And then there was a salary freeze. Nobody was going to get a raise for at least a year.
Speaker 2:When they told me that, I walked into my boss's office and I said I want a raise today or I will not be back tomorrow. Okay, we just fired three guys and you're coming in here asking for a raise. I said yeah, who's your number one producer? Me. Who's going to be doing all their work? Me. So I want to raise, and I want to raise today or I'm not going to come back tomorrow. You'll have to find somebody else. And well, at the end of the day he came back and and he goes. I can't believe it. The old man said okay.
Speaker 1:You are absolutely amazing. I love your spirit. How in the world did you land the Olympic job?
Speaker 2:It was a senator from North Carolina that was the biggest Olympic individual sponsor, I guess you know giving them money, because he was a track star at UNC Chapel Hill before the Blacks were allowed in the college, okay. When Blacks were finally allowed to come in, all those records went by the wayside, yeah. But he loved the amateur sports and he wanted to—he was a supporter of the Olympic Committee. So they asked him to build a new strength training center out there in Colorado Springs at their training center and he called me up and he said John, I want you to come out. We're going to build a strength training center. I want you to do a sculpture for the front of it.
Speaker 2:So I went out there. This was a trip. This guy's name is Erwin Belt. I don't know if you ever heard of Belt Department Stores, but there's mostly a southern store. They have 300 and some department stores. Huge outfit, huge outfit. So I went out there.
Speaker 2:We went over the building and what they wanted, and then they said they wanted a sculpture with the theme of strength. So then they all took us to dinner at the Broadmoor, which is a historic, big money, old money hotel. Now they're saying, okay, well, what can we come up with? Uh, here's what we thought about. Well, you like one guy on a bench with the, with the towel around his neck, because he just lifted a weight, and another guy lifting away. Okay, well, that's, that's okay.
Speaker 2:I said you know what, though, what do you think of when? What's the one visual that comes to mind when you think about strength? To me, it's atlas. Right, held up the universe. How about we have an Atlas figure Instead of an Atlas? We have four Olympic athletes and we can have a female for the Pan American Games. We can have an African-American guy for the US Olympic team. We can have an ancient Greek, which was the original, and we can have the Paralympics ancient greek, which was the original, and we can have the paralympics and that's that's it, and they could be holding up the world, holding the world up on their shoulders.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great idea. Uh, is there anything you could do with the, the olympic federations? I said, well, how many are there? 45? Yeah, I'll sculpt their logos and relief and run them around the base of the sculpture. I sculpted it out on a napkin and showed them that. And so then the donor says well, john, how much do you think that's going to cost? You want to do it life-size? I said life-size. That's Mickey Mouse. You can't do this life-size. It has to be at least twice life-size and it's probably going to run you a little over a million dollars. So you know where the guy goes. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, everybody was all excited here. We had the thing and, uh, we had our dinner and drinks. And after the dinner and drinks, his oldest son came up to me and he said um, you're spending our inheritance. I said what? Yeah, you're spending our inheritance. Our dad's giving you all these projects. You're spending our inheritance.
Speaker 2:I said, what's an inheritance? He said, well, it's the way you get left when your relative dies. I said, well, is your father still alive? Yeah, so then he goes. He got when I said that, he got really mad. He goes. I could go out right now and get a dozen guys that do what you do Right, just like that, oh my gosh. And I said, well, you know, you're probably right, you can find a lot of guys out there that could do what I'm doing, can I? Can I ask you a question? Okay, have you ever been to Rome? Yeah, have you ever been to the Vatican? Yeah, I've been to the Vatican. Have you ever been to the Sistine Chapel and seen that beautiful ceiling in there? Oh, yeah, I've been there. I said who painted that? He goes? Well, everybody knows that Michelangelo. I said, okay, now, who put up the money for the painting? Which pope? Really, what I've learned is I've actually saved that family millions because this guy was hiring all these top level, world-renowned sculptors just to do mediocre stuff.
Speaker 1:But hire the best yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 2:But you know the thing is I saved them millions of dollars Because I didn't care about making a fortune I've never had. I told my wife I think my one mistake was that I didn't. My goal in life was not to become rich. I don't care about money. We were so poor. My dad got his first, got his suit that he wore on Sunday at the rescue mission in Mansfield Ohio. I don't care about any kind of serial things. They don't mean a thing to me.
Speaker 1:And did you get that $2 drum that you wanted?
Speaker 2:Here's what happened that $2 drum. I used to walk by there all the time because my grandma's guest house was right in downtown St Petersburg. We lived in grandma's guest house for a couple of months and then mom kicked grandma hair down the steps, kicked an 80-year-old woman down the flight of steps that went up to the garage apartment, so Grant threw us out of there. We went out to the boondocks of St Petersburg where the streets were just sand and the open sewer was running right in front of your house, out where nobody lived. And my next door neighbor had a sandwich shop and it was going to be the 4th of July parade and he said John, if you come down and sell sandwiches out there on the sidewalk, well, I'll pay you $2. You can get your grump. I said, okay, I'll do that. So there I was Sandwiches, hot Cuban sandwiches, ladies and gentlemen, get them while they're hot. 25 cents right here, hot Cuban sandwiches.
Speaker 2:So after the parade was over and I saw those drummers march by, he gave me the money. I ran down to the music store and I said I'm ready to get the drum. I dumped all the change out on the counter and the guy counted and he goes you're like 35 cents short. I said that guy's stiff me. And I looked around when I noticed, when I came in the door, on his window it said St Pete music, I think, but it was like bold leaf lettering, it was peeling. I said you know what? I don't have the money, but I'm an artist and I could repaint your sign for you and you keep the money. I'll repaint your sign and just let me have the drum for the summer. He goes okay, deal. So I got that and I thought no, now how do I do that? So I found a little sign shop and the guy in there was nice enough to take this nine-year-old kid. Give him a brush that was a proper brush for sign painting. Give him a brush that was a proper brush for sign painting. Tell me how to prepare the glass. Gave me the metallic paint. So that guy helped me and that was my first freelance job.
Speaker 2:And then when I got to Ohio, there was a Dairy Queen down the street. I did all their posters with the big ice cream cone and a bananas and I said I don't want any money. Just, you know, give me a tab, as I did my friends from junior high school. Hey, let's go get some ice cream. I don't have any money, man, it's on me. Come on, banana split, it's on me. You know, I'd take my friends out there. We'd get a free ice cream. And even while I was in college I I hardly ever paid for a meal, because I always ate at places where I'd say, hey, you need a new menu, I'll design it for you. Hey, you need posters? Up there, one guy was doing his own condiments. I'll do your label for your product, I'll do your logo, I'll put it on the window. So anything, just that. And like my first two years in college, I don't think I ever paid for a meal.
Speaker 1:So that's amazing. I mean, you just always were thinking outside of the box.
Speaker 2:And you know, when I was in Columbus Ohio, I didn't really have anything, didn't know anybody, and I just drive around and hey, there's a brick wall over there that had a thing painted on it and it's all gone bad. I'm going to go and tell that guy let's repaint that, If you don't like that one, we'll put a different one up there. That's what I did Freelance projects, because nobody's going to come and knock on your door when they don't know who you are and you don't have a door, right, right.
Speaker 1:So you got to go out there and hustle. What did the no's do for you? Because I know that not everybody said yes. I mean there had to be no's along the way. I got a lot of those, and did they ever beat you down?
Speaker 2:No, not really. I just I didn't take it. I'm not going to stand for that. If you're going to put me down and do that kind of stuff, I'm not going to deal with you either professionally or get a job working for you. I'm just not going to do it. You're more important to me than I am to you.
Speaker 1:There you go. I mean, I was just going to say you believed in yourself.
Speaker 2:Well, I had to. That's all I got Right. When you come to the realization that you, basically, are totally on your own, what are you going to do? That's all you got on your own. What are you going to do? That's all you got. You can only work with what you have or what you're going to develop in yourself. That's going to make you more marketable.
Speaker 1:Right and, if I remember right, you told me you were like 16 years old when you realized. That's it I have to do this life by myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was playing my drums all over Miami and going to high school and my mom came up, was going to hit me with a baseball bat and I said you know what? That is the end of the punishment. You will never hit me again, you will never strike me again. I grabbed that bat, threw it out. After that she never bothered me. Just the way it is. You know, you got to make it better for yourself and you want to make it better for yourself by doing good, good things, not bad things. You know, don't go out and steal the worst thing in my life a thief. I have been robbed at gunpoint. I have been robbed at gunpoint. I have been robbed at knife point.
Speaker 2:I sat in the back of a car with a carpet knife and a switchblade on my neck, like that in San Francisco, where I went for an audition with Dave Mason, a famous musician. I thought I was going to die in that freight yard down there. But here I am. I recognize, you know what. I'm in the backseat of a car like this with a knife on my neck. I realize I only had one weapon this. And then we're black. I'm a junkie man. I need a fix. You got money. We're junkie, we gotta have a fix. All I had was $2 on me.
Speaker 2:I was going for an audition. I on me, I was going for an audition. I didn't drive my van, I was hitchhiking because the clutch was going out. I was in San Francisco trying to go up these hills with no clutch, so I just start talking. This is my weapon. I talked about Jimi Hendrix, the Izy Brothers, little Richard. I played with them, every person of color that I knew, and finally the one guy goes hey, man, you know he didn't have anything, let's let him go. The one guy goes hey, man, you know he didn't have anything, let's let him go. The guy goes okay, man, we're going to let you go, but you turn your head as much as one inch. I'm going to come back and cut you. Cut you, my gosh.
Speaker 1:So here's that guy in my head.
Speaker 2:So they drove me to a freight yard in San Francisco. But now it's like one or two in the morning. We let you go and the guys uh, so finally, uh, the other guy goes. I think he's still holding out on us. He pulls out his carpet knife again and then that switchblade again. I thought, okay, this, and you know, they say that your life flashes before your eyes. Right, yeah, that did that actually happened, just like that in a second. Everything. You really thought you were gonna die. This is the end of john, here down here in this freight yard, and that's, that's just going to be the end of it. But uh, I said, okay, there's nothing I can do. I don't have any money. I'll take you to berkeley if you want. I'll stay with my friend over there see if we can get you some heroin. There's nothing is to do what you're gonna do. So I told them if you're gonna kill me, kill me. If not, just let me go. So they let me go and uh, it was one of those old cars where the two the seat up in front pull forward. Then you could step out of the back seat just to right. Right, there's all.
Speaker 2:As my foot hit the ground, bam in the back of my head with a wine bottle and I went like red black, red black, red black and I was out. I woke up I don't know how much later it was, it was still dark and I had to laugh because the irony of it was the only way I could get back to Berkeley was hitchhike, and that's how I got in this mess. So I had to find my way from this freight yard down over to the book there, the Bay Bridge, oakland Bay Bridge. I finally got on the bridge. It's like four in the morning, dark. All these cars are whizzing by. I'm dressed like Jimi Hendrix. I got all this flashy clothes on. My drumsticks are sticking in my boot. You know, I got blood. My hair is all matted with blood, running down my face and on my shirt. They're hitchhiking. Nobody's stopping.
Speaker 2:Finally, this black Mercedes pulls in. Hey, where are you going? I said Berkeley. Okay, hop in, we'll give you a ride. So I hopped in and this couple had been doing all night cocaine thing. I think he had a sports coach, he had a Fox, stole one, and they never said one word to me after that. Just where you know, where do you want us to drop you off. It was like oh, did you hear what John said to Bill? I couldn't believe that. And did you see that dress Susan was wearing strictly last season? Let me out of here. I got back to Berkeley. I threw my drums in the van. The guy goes well, what about your audition? I go. I wouldn't live in San Francisco if you paid me a million dollars. I'm out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back to Vegas, which is where I was working waiting for the band Sugar Love to come. I was their drummer for the summer and they had some kind of complications with being in rehab or something like that. So I never got that gig. And when I got back to Vegas, my wife and the baby were gone. And there was a note there John mom wanted me to bring the baby back for Christmas. I'll see you in a few weeks.
Speaker 2:And a few weeks went by and a month went by and weeks more went by and I called my buddy in Mansfield, ohio and I said hey, can you just go down and see what's going on? Uh, my wife's living down there and her parents, uh, with her parents, with our, with our baby. He called me back and he goes. Well, her parents don't live there anymore. She's like that, shacked up with some bike, a biker guy oh my gosh. Okay, so now, uh, now I got to drive back to Ohio and take care of all this, which I had a couple of jobs I was doing like light shows for clubs while I was trying to make money and stay alive in Vegas.
Speaker 2:I was waiting for this other band and so I drove back 53 hours straight to Ohio and we had this front door is an old Ohio style door with a window in the front, with the curtain door. She comes like this wait a minute, comes out and hands me an envelope manila envelope and I said what's this? She goes, we're divorced. I said we can't be divorced in Ohio. You have to wait a year. Well, the judge that you abandoned me, wow, okay. And then he, so he gave you a divorce. Well, I've been sleeping with the guy and the judge was a friend of uh was. It was a father of a good friend of mine from high school, so that's that. I said, okay, I left that place. Uh, as I left, I I kicked a big Harley motorcycle off the porch through the railing into the concrete driveway and I never saw her again after that. You have really been through it.
Speaker 1:What made you? I'm still seeing that kid was holding the grabbing the baseball bat and saying you are never going to hurt me again. I mean that really took a lot to be able to do that and for your mom to listen to you.
Speaker 2:Well her? Her answer was oh yeah, well, you can. Just, you're going to start paying rent. You're going to start paying rent because you're playing in a band. You're making pretty good money for a high school kid. I said you know what? I'll go live with my bass player before I'll pay you rent.
Speaker 2:So she didn't, I stayed there. But you know, after that I went. I couldn't, I couldn't take it anymore. I left there and went to Ohio and moved in with my dad and studied fine art at Ohio State and then, uh, dropped out of there during the Vietnam thing and just, I worked at, I was an art director at a local Columbus cable TV station and I played my music at night while I was still going to art school and I'd be in the basement of these clubs with three cartons of beer stacked up, with a light bulb on a chain, with my art history book, doing my studies down there. You know, here's the thing. There's only one way that humans are equal.
Speaker 2:Okay, you have 24 hours in your day. What are you doing with your 24 hours? When I first started sculpting, people said you're john, you're 50, you're 50 years old, you're gonna hours. When I first started sculpting, people said you're, john, you're 50, you're 50 years old, you're going to start a new career. Are you going to? Are you going to compete with? These guys have been doing it their whole lives. I said well, you know what? I got 24 hours in my day. I got eight hours to sleep and 16 hours to work, and the first nine years that I was in business, I never took one day off. I worked 12 to 16 hours every day and that's how I built up that tremendous body of work. That's how I did it. Well, that's what I tell people. People go man, I could have been a great artist. What are you doing with your 24 hours? I encourage them If you want to do art, do art.
Speaker 2:I know you have a job. You probably had to raise a family and all that, but here's what you do Get a spot in your house that's going to be your little studio. Get a desk right In the garage it's in the spare room, wherever. Get yourself, set up all your art supplies there and then, like on Saturday morning, from 9 to noon, you're going to do your art. Get started doing your art. Get started doing, start, get started doing your art and after you do that, you're going to start seeing results. You're going to start seeing that you're producing stuff. You're going to start feeling good about it. You're going to start feeling good about yourself and putting more time into that, where, gradually, if you totally embrace that thing, then that'll be your career. What do you do in your 24 hours?
Speaker 1:I love that because I have the same philosophy and I too, I see so many people sitting around on their phones or doing, you know, all the things that aren't productive when we can put down our phones, and we could be so much more productive in our days, but I think so many things have robbed us today from being able to do that your days and your nights. Yeah, before we go, you said that you played also with Little Richard. Could you talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, richard, he was a trip. My band played with him at the Whiskey A Go-Go in LA. I've been there, I know that place. And they left there and came back to Miami. And it was several years later and Richard came to Miami and called us up hey man, come down and see me. So we went down to his hotel. He had a big suite and his cousin Candy opened the door. Who was the head of his entourage? There was about 12 people in this suite and Richard says I'll play you all my new song and it was Good Gosh Almighty or something like that, and he picked up a guitar. I didn't know Richard even played guitar. It was Good Gosh Almighty or something like that, and he picked up a guitar. I didn't know Richard even played guitar. I thought he was just a piano player.
Speaker 2:So he goes into the bedroom, lays out with his feet out straight on the bed, he's got his guitar and he's playing this song. And they're all around the bed like this, kneeled on the floor, you know, and when Richard spoke, nobody spoke. It's like the Inca or the Aztec I speak, you do not speak, okay. So he's in there playing a song and all these people are kneeling around the bed and Jimmy and I are just standing over kind of in the doorway listening to the song and the phone rings. He goes John, john, john, get the phone. He always went like that Get the phone, get the phone. So, get the phone. He always went like that get the phone, get the phone. So I went over, I go ah, this is paul mccartney. Paul mccartney, oh my god. Yeah, let me let me get him for you. So I run in to go. Richard, richard, paul mccartney's on the phone, wants to talk to you. He goes tell him to wait a minute. I'm playing my song. I'm playing my song, come to wait.
Speaker 2:I said okay, so me and Jimmy we'll talk to Paul McCartney for five minutes or so. So we were just chatting with Paul. He goes could you ask him again? I said okay, so I went in. Richard Paul McCartney's been on the phone for five minutes. I said tell him to wait a minute.
Speaker 2:I made the Beatles. I made the Beatles, which he did because they hit it big when they were touring with him in Germany. Okay, so, anyway, this guy made Paul McCartney wait on the phone and this was a transatlantic phone call Back then. It was a lot of money, Made him wait 15 minutes. And finally I went in and I said Richard, paul McCartney has been waiting on the phone for 15 minutes. Are you going to talk to him? He goes, tell him I'll call him back. Wow, yeah, there's a guy. Yeah, you can make one of the Beatles wait on the phone for 15 minutes and then not even talk to him. So then he asked it to be his rumor. I thought, no man, I can't do it because he's too flighty, you know. And at that time he had like a $500 a day cocaine habit and I've never been on cocaine because it was just way too expensive for me.
Speaker 1:Man, what a story. I mean, you have so many stories, oh, I have a lot of stories.
Speaker 2:That's true. Actually, I'm doing a book. Oh okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Talk about that. I've got, uh, I've done 100 and I'm coming up on 170 public art commissions. Okay, and I'm sitting at um out at my son's house with my grandson who's six years old, and he points me, he goes old, old, old and I thought you know what I'm going to do? A book, because I want my grandkids and my great grandkids and everybody else in this family what your grandpa did. Right, I've got, and I'm already over 200 pages and I'm not even through half of my stuff yet, because I'm going to show big, beautiful color pictures.
Speaker 1:Now are you doing the drumming too? I went to. I went to an audition.
Speaker 2:I was just some guys called me and said, hey, I'm going to show big, beautiful color pictures. Now are you doing the drumming too? I went to an audition. It was just some guys calling me. They said hey, I'm on your website, see, you play with Jimi Hendrix and you're in North Carolina now, yeah, would you want to come and play with us? We're in Huntersville and there's a studio. We'd like you to come and play Just for a couple hours. I said, well, I was close, I lived pretty close. I said, okay, I'll do that.
Speaker 2:So I went down there and the first thing I said was okay, you know what? I haven't sat down in a set of drums in about five years. So just, can we start off easy? Where do they start off with Led Zeppelin? I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I was like you didn't like that.
Speaker 2:But I got on top of it. I played it just fantastic. And when that song was done and they were good, they were good players. The guitar player goes man, we got us a real drummer. Now we got us a real drummer. So I did that for two hours. I felt so good.
Speaker 2:When I walked out of there, my whole body was vibrating because I got to just beat those drums for two hours. I just loved it. And then I'm driving home and I thought I used to be able to listen to a drum lick one time and then I could play it Just another drummer. I didn't do that this time. There was a couple of songs that I couldn't get the part and what I realized was it wasn't that I couldn't hear it or understand how to do it, I couldn't remember it. A minute later. That happened to me about three times and I thought you know what, you must be losing your short-term memory. And that's kind of when I got down and said they asked me to come back and play again and I said no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I think you're being a little hard on yourself too, though I mean, I don't know, I'm sure it still sounded amazing.
Speaker 2:No matter what man we played for two hours. I just laid it down man. I felt so good.
Speaker 1:I mean, even when you were done, they said that they found a real drummer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah they liked me I could have gone back there. I could have gone back and gotten that band, but I don't know. Kind of busy doing this other stuff right now. Maybe when I'm 80, I'll do that 80,.
Speaker 1:I'll do that. See, I love that you still are Now. You're playing them into your 80s, so that's fantastic. I hope I'm here.
Speaker 2:I think that you do more in one day than a lot of people do in a week. Well, you know what? My wife is a movie lover. She sits around the living room all night. Let's watch a movie. Let's watch a movie, let's watch. I said, you know what? I want to spend the rest of my life watching movies. I want to go out and do stuff that people make movies about. Exactly, let's do that with our time. You know there's movies about other people.
Speaker 1:Other people have told me by watching my life that they are tired. You know, because we were in 16 states this summer and like we just go and do, and I want to experience and I want to have my kids be exposed to as many things as they possibly can, and I want to get up and I want to be creative and I want to go to bed and I'm just thinking and I'm just what can I write down? You know, what can I do next? And that's what inspires me, that's what moves me forward every single day, that's what gets me up in the morning, and if other people are tired, then let them go to bed. That's it. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know I am so. I am so blessed and grateful that I walked past you that day, and then I walked past you again that day and started the conversation with you.
Speaker 2:I'm honored that I even know you. What you've done with your life is nothing. I can't compare to that. Oh my gosh, john, I mean I admire you. As far as I'm concerned, I'm just you know, this little guy over here. What you've done is totally amazing Taught yourself, because nobody would teach you. Wow, I'm just proud to be your friend. I hope we are friends.
Speaker 1:We are friends and I really thank you for that because you know, when I was that little kid again, just like you, I mean, I was battered down and here I was, this kid that wasn't able to really learn and I had all these disabilities and things, and so I did.
Speaker 1:They even said that I probably wouldn't even graduate high school, and then I ended up just getting a hold of a tape recorder because you know, I'm old, and I got a hold of a tape recorder and then I would talk into it, I would read into it and the words were even messed up, but I would do my best reading into this tape recorder. I would talk into it, I would read into it and the words were even messed up, but I would do my best reading into this tape recorder. I would listen to it, I would write it down, I would take notes, I would remember enough to retain enough to take a test to get a C maybe, and I just did that all the way to a master's degree, you know, and I just decided that, young, that nobody was going to define me and tell me that I wasn't able to do something. So you can relate with that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I can I can? They're still telling me that and I'm still doing my stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, please keep me informed with what's going on in your life. And also, you know I want to read that book.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, if I can ever get it done. I've met a guy named Paul Sorvino. He's a movie actor. He played in Goodfellas. You know that guy I do, and he was a sculptor and he called me asking for help. So we kind of became friends. He wanted me to ask me if I want to be in this movie he was doing in New York and I said, yeah, I don't have to learn any lines, do I? He said no, just like, do a walk across. I said what's that? And he goes you know, when they open a scene, somebody kind of walks across and the camera zooms in on the action. Yeah, yeah, I'll do that. So, uh, I went up there.
Speaker 2:We were filming at this old, abandoned hospital. It was during the middle of the night and, uh, we went back to his house after the shoot. So he wanted me to see his sculpture studio that he had just built and he told me his life story. As we're sitting around his kitchen table at four in the morning drinking coffee and I told him about my life story and he goes oh my God, john, that's a movie, that's at least a documentary or something, okay. So he said you know, you got to write a screenplay.
Speaker 2:He says write a book. He says write a book. And he says, no, don't write a book, write a screenplay. I said how do I write a screenplay? Just take that little script that you've been carrying around in your pocket, that I gave you, use that for your model and then write your, write your story. So I started, and at this time we were taking care of my wife's father who was bedridden, so I had I, so I just started writing these little chapters. You know a little piece of my life here. And then this happened. That happened and I wrote it all and by the time I got through a lot of it, I was so depressed that I just didn't want to finish it and I said well, paul, what's going to happen to you in the movie?
Speaker 2:I got to die, but there's so much hope in your story. It never happened, but I still got those stories and I don't know if I want to relive those.
Speaker 1:But you know, some of the things that we've done on the podcast is talk about some of those hurtful things and we go back and we, we, yeah, we revisit. And it is very difficult to revisit those times, but I do think that they it gives other people hope and it gives them you know, the people that are actually living in it or they feel as if they can't move forward from whatever moment in time that they're in.
Speaker 1:It shows them that they can so so I don't know, maybe you will still have a movie about your life someday.
Speaker 2:Well, if they do, nobody's going to know all the people in that movie they're going to go. Who's Jimi Hendrix?
Speaker 1:They're still saying that now. Well, there's still enough of us around that know who he is. I think, and I don't know. I mean, he forged a path for a lot of people, so I hope that we don't forget about him. Oh I don't think.
Speaker 2:I don't think we'll ever. If we do, it's a sad, sad moment for the whole planet. Oh, absolutely Fantastic, and you, you're a moment for the planet. Seriously, thank you for what you're doing. I'm sure you're helping a lot of people with these, with these podcasts.
Speaker 1:Well, our podcasts are growing more and more and we're getting we're turning into more of a radio podcast and we have quite a few stations that we're on. So it's really, you know, in some television stations. So it's been a real blessing to me and and you know, it's that burning that you talked about and I've always had that burning to be able to tell stories of other people and be able to get it out either by writing or broadcasting. And my first classes in college were in broadcasting and I, just like we said, you and I had a conversation before where sometimes our roads don't always go. It's not a straight road and you never know where you're going to end up, but you have to be open to wherever those roads lead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you can't sit around waiting for opportunities. You have to go out and make your own. You do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. I've spent the last few weeks just showing up at places and making things happen, and that is proof of what your life, what you have done.
Speaker 2:Oh, and Tom Petty had a song where he said I have just one light. That's the way most people should be, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, our lights, kind of, you know, passed and so I'm very thankful that I'm telling you. When you were there, and then at one point I saw you just walking around with a cup of coffee and I'm just like he's, he's interesting, I'm going to talk to him. So I'm glad that I did, I'm very thankful, you know, I don't know what it is, but I get that a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you kind of put out this energy. You know, I don't think that you realize. I just read this thing about and basically it's positive energy and negative energy, and you put out a positive energy. Yeah, I picked up on it right away.
Speaker 2:So I tell you, at the Shawshank thing I actually crashed their party.
Speaker 1:Oh, you did.
Speaker 2:I didn't get invited to the party, I didn't get invited to the dinner. But you know what? I just went in there and went to this huge restaurant where, after their show, they all went. It was a couple hundred people in there and the people from the film were in a little private room but the whole restaurant was all the big wigs. In the town, you know, they're all getting a free dinner and drinks. And I just walked in and I said I want to talk to the director, frank. I heard he wants to talk to me and she goes. Well, I don't see your name on the list right here. I said, look, I just want to talk to Frank. He asked me to talk with him. I'm not on the list. Okay, I just want to talk to Frank and then I'll be out of here. So I just walked. I just walked in there to Frank. Frank tapped him on the shoulder, heard, you wanted to talk to me. Okay, I left him my, my, my information.
Speaker 2:I walked out and then before I left, there was everybody was at tables and there was a long bar and there was nobody at the bar. So I thought you know what? I haven't anything to eat. I'll probably. Just, you know, I'll get a beer. I get a beer and then I'll go somewhere and eat. So I ordered a beer and I go, how much is it? And the guy goes. Well, it's an open bar and an open menu. You can not only have all you want to drink, but whatever you want to eat. So and the cool thing about it was he was a neat guy and he was kind of, he was an artistic person. I sat there talking to him and, um, all of a sudden somebody taps me on the shoulder and look around, well, it's, it's the mayor. Hi, I wanted to meet you. Oh, my goodness, oh nice meeting you, mayor, thanks for coming over. I'm sitting there drinking my beer and then I order a little shrimp appetizer. He goes you can have the filet, it's $60. I go, I'm not going to take advantage, I just have a little.
Speaker 2:I had a rare disease for seven years where I couldn't eat hardly anything called parosmia, and I lived basically for seven years on cottage cheese and red grapes. I could not eat or drink or smell anything else because I had this parosmia disease, and that was a time I contemplated ending it, because you know, you sit in your chair and everything tastes or smells like one of three things Burning fire. So you're sitting in your living room hey, somebody leave the stove on. You know you're smelling a fire. The other thing burning flesh that's the second smell, and then human feces, the three things that you smell and taste. I couldn't drive down the street where the restaurants were. I couldn't go into a grocery store and when I was having a dedication of a piece, like at a university or something that I'll be having a steak dinner, and they'd bring me out a plate of cottage cheese and red grapes. Oh, my gosh, I've never even heard of this. Seven years I had that.
Speaker 1:And it just went away. I had to work through, it just went away.
Speaker 2:Well, here's what You've got these smell sensors up here between your brain and your sinus.
Speaker 2:They look like little stamens on a flower, like that Okay, and somehow that Okay, and somehow that gets corrupted. They don't know what happens if a virus comes in and kills it, or but it totally makes your entire sense of taste and smell corrupt. You deal with that every minute of every day and it's just you. I got to the point where I just wanted to end it, but I had too much going on, I couldn't do that. But I finally had they said well, we send you to this one guy up in Nebraska. He's the. He's the one guy in the country that does this operation.
Speaker 2:He said but there's a 50-50 chance that while they're in there stripping out your smell sensors, that they're going to puncture the membrane that's between your sinuses and your brain. 50-50 chance. Oh my gosh, I can't do that. And he goes. The only other chance you have is you may get nerve regeneration. It doesn't happen very often, but if you did, it would take about seven years for those nerves to regenerate, and it did take seven years. Now I can eat and drink anything I want, so I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm really glad that you are still here. I'm really glad that you did not go with those thoughts that you had, that you did not go with those thoughts that you had. And you know we can end it here in a minute, but I just wanted to say it sounds like when you forced your way basically, you found a way in to go into the Shawshank Redemption dinner and you weren't invited that you have spent your entire life going into places where you should have belonged to begin with. You know you found a way to get into those places, but you were meant to be there.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I was meant to, but I was there.
Speaker 1:Well, you know that is such a big message to everybody and I just want anybody that's listening to take this as a you know, you can do it too. You've got that 24 hours in the day and you can do it too. You can show up and go to places and figure out how to work your way in to be able to be whatever you want to be in life. That's it, but I just want to thank you so much for being on Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I'm very thankful to have you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being yourself and helping all the people that you're helping. God bless you.
Speaker 1:And thank you for also. Your art really touches people. It touched me the moment I turned around and I saw that piece that was in front of me from Shawshank Redemption. And I was just it was mesmerizing.
Speaker 2:I think that's probably one of my best pieces. I like it.
Speaker 1:Wow, Then I'm so glad I got to be in in the presence of that piece and some guy in Oklahoma won that Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some guy named Jason.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:But he won that sculpture.
Speaker 1:That's crazy that it went to somebody instead of it being, like you know, somewhere in a movie, museum or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then what happened was the director that I went in Frank to see at their dinner that I crashed their party. He said I want one of those for Spielberg. Are you going to do that? Well, we'll cast another one, let's see. But the only reason I did that in Mansfield was because I live there. Seventh grade, sixth grade, high school, Okay, and every industry that that town was built on just shoved it to the people there. They did General Motors. You drive out in Mansfield there's one area that's so expansive you can't even see the end of it. What is it? Concrete slabs where they were building cars. Concrete slabs where they were building cars. And now the greedy, just like the art world, the greedy need more. How about living for other people? How about living for your family? How about just living the life of a normal human being?
Speaker 1:That's why you're so successful. I believe and success is defined differently by everybody, but I mean your success is based on what? Did you say? That you want to be a great, be known for being a great father and grandfather and great grandfather. I mean, that's where you live and that's what's most important to you.
Speaker 2:I didn't do it for myself. I did it for my family. My wife would sometimes say oh, you care about your career. I don't even view myself as having a career. I know I got one job to raise kids that make the right decisions. I never beat my kids. I got beat to death because it doesn't work. You have to communicate with them. I'm just telling them you know what? I have one job as a father so that when you grow up you can make right decisions for yourself.
Speaker 1:But you did give your kids and their kids more opportunities than you had before. You were able to create it for yourself. I mean, you've really created a great life for them.
Speaker 2:Isn't that what parents do?
Speaker 1:That's what you try to do, that's what we try to do, and I mean I adopted my two kids when they were four and three and my older two kids. They're in their 20s, one's just turned 30. But then you know, I mean you do everything that you can to give them the best opportunities. And you know, I mean you do everything that you can to give them the best opportunities. And you know, when they're four and three, when you first meet them, there's been a lot already happened in their life. So you do the best that you can in our situation. And then I didn't end up with my one daughter's three kids which I'm, and one was two months when I got him and 18 months was my daughter. Now they're my kids because I adopted them, and one was a nonverbal four-year-old and all of them had autism and a lot of disabilities. But you know they are my biggest blessings and that's why I do everything that I do. God bless you and your kids. Well, thank you so much, john again.
Speaker 2:Your kids Well, thank you so much, john again and thank you for being on Real Talk with Tina and Ann, and I will see you next time, okay, great.
