Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
The Healing and Transformative Power of Music with Mikey Silas of Apostle Jones Part 1
What if the power of music could heal your deepest wounds and unite communities in the face of adversity? On this transformative episode of Real Talk with Tina and Ann, we welcome Mikey Silas, the magnetic frontman of Cleveland's dynamic band Apostle Jones. Mikey shares the band's inspiring journey, from their formation in 2019 to their current award-winning success, providing an intimate look at how music became a source of healing and connection during some of the most challenging times.
Mikey opens up about the personal and collective struggles the band faced during the pandemic, including the profound loss of his father. For Mikey and his bandmates, music wasn't just an outlet—it became a sanctuary. It was through music that they found solace, processing grief while bringing hope to others. This episode delves into the universal truth that art, especially music, has the power to heal, inspire, and unite people when they need it most.
A pivotal part of our conversation touches on the unique challenges queer individuals face in a predominantly heteronormative society. Mikey candidly discusses how these experiences have influenced him, adding layers of authenticity and emotion to his art. Apostle Jones music becomes more than just sound; it's a reflection of lived experiences, a journey of self-reinvention, and a bold expression of identity. Each band member's journey of recovery has led them to a shared artistic collaboration.
Throughout the episode, we also explore the idea of embracing life's timing and purpose. Drawing on personal stories and moving quotes, Mikey reminds us that resilience, growth, and the pursuit of passion are timeless. Our discussion highlights the magic of spontaneous songwriting, the thrill of live performances where raw emotion turns into melodies, and the boundless joy that music can bring to listeners of all ages.
Join us for a soul-stirring conversation, where music meets vulnerability, and healing emerges through self-expression. Whether you're an artist, a music lover, or someone searching for purpose, this episode will leave you inspired by the transformative power of relationships, resilience, and the unifying force of music.
In part 1, you will hear clips:
-10-9-8 (Apostle Jones- Featuring solos by Honey Monai and Mikey Silas with words by Love Freely)
-This Little Light of Mine sung by Love Freely (Winterfest 2024)
-Solo by Michael Haburay/Apostle Jones does AC/DC "What Do You Do for Money Honey?" (Live at the Beachland Ballroom) 1/26/24
-Turn it Up (Apostle Jones)
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Castro: Real Talk with Tina and Ann (castro.fm)
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne and Tina will be back soon. In this episode, we're going to be covering a lot of different things, but some of the things we're going to be touching on is taking our pain and overcoming through music and choosing your path in the midst of pain and chaos. We will talk about who is in charge of your life and making a difference in others' lives by giving us purpose. Mikey has a lot to talk about in this episode. I am so excited to have you, Mikey Silas, on this podcast. I have wanted you on for a very long time. I am very grateful. Well, thank you so much a very long time. I am very grateful.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for having me, Anne. I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Mikey, you formed a band out of Cleveland, Ohio, Apostle Jones. It is made up of incredible musicians from all over Cleveland Am.
Speaker 2:I right that's correct. Yes.
Speaker 1:To let our listeners know a little bit about the awards that you guys have won, and it will tell them a little bit about who you are and your band. Over the course of the last four years, you have won Best Blues Band in 2024, Best Band for Three Years, Top Music Artist, Best Vocalist, Best Singer-Songwriter two of your bandmates who are also in their own group feeling just won Best R&B this year in Cleveland and you have personally won Most Interesting Person in Cleveland in 2024 from Cleveland Magazine, and you have only been around since about 2019. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's correct. I moved back to Cleveland from Chicago in 2016. And it took about a couple of years to sort of recalibrate and then really started getting rolling with the band right before the you know the shutdown and the pandemic and you know the whole shift in the world. And then during 2020, there was I'm sure we'll touch on this at some point, but you know I lost my father that year. Um as the world, oh, thank you. Um as the world was sort of figuring out what was going on, whatever, how things were gonna be new in in a new sort of like social climate and everything like that. And I think we had the decision at that point whether to just kind of like sit back and wait for things to reopen, or. But we had built such like a strong connection with music and being in the community that it was hard to let that go at first.
Speaker 2:So 2020, once some of the stuff with my father sort of took a, I'm going to say calm down, but you know he passed away and we kind of moved into like the next phase of how to manage as a family and stuff like that. We ended up booking gigs and everything that were kind of like was kind of like unheard of at that time. So we started doing this little restaurant gigs, some indoors, and everything that were kind of like was kind of like unheard of at that time. So we started doing this little restaurant gigs, some indoors, and everything like that, and we kind of like worked through that period in an active way.
Speaker 2:I think we all decided like we kind of locked ourselves in our practice space and in our own little bubble at the time and decided you know, we'll take gigs even if there's no pay for it. We really just want to play. For me, it was a very healing thing for me to be able to go out and play, because music was one of those ways where I feel closer to spirit, and so we kind of worked through that pandemic period and then the band really kind of started to evolve from there and eventually, as things started to get more normalized through that period we started, the elements of the band that now exist started to really come into play. So since 2019, the band has grown immensely, but that was really the year when things started to sort of come into focus for the Apostle.
Speaker 1:Here is a sample of Mikey and Apostle Joe.
Speaker 3:Now there were warmer nights, apostle. Here's a sample of Mikey and Apostle John back home. Yeah, lost the job but we had loved each other. Taking money from your old cash drawer, I bought them things that made us feel better. I did mine, you did yours in two opposing rooms. We were on our trip, but did my you dare yours In two opposing rooms. We were on our trip. Lost sight of love and that chorus to sing. What makes me feel this way? God said, yeah, turn it up and repeat it again. Now, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up and repeat it again.
Speaker 1:Turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up so you can hear how special this band is and look at all that you have accomplished in such a short time. And, my friend, I really believe that you guys are just getting started. You don't do anything halfway, do you?
Speaker 2:You're asking someone who's like a procrastinating perfectionist.
Speaker 2:I love that Something a little better, a little something a little better, a little bit more effort, a little bit stronger, um, but I definitely, I definitely. The one thing that I do do all the way is, you know, hope, believe and trust. I think that that really plays a lot into into the process of putting stuff out there and letting letting, sort of like letting it evolve and become what it needs to become on its own sometimes, but in terms of when we get on stage, nah, there's no, there's no crowd too small, there's no crowd too big, there's no audience member greater than the other. You know that everyone, it's just, it's all about. It's all about living fully in that moment.
Speaker 1:Um, and you guys do I say this all the time that you guys are so much more than a band. You're an experience. I mean, every single time I have been to one of your concerts, it feels and if I can say it like this like you're a bunch of misfits that are gathering together to love and encourage and pay forward your joy to others, and I feel like I just went to hippie church. You call it rock and soul, and I think that that pretty much defines you.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you bring that up, because genre is important for marketing and algorithms and playlists and short bio listings and explaining to somebody what it is they're about to see or what did you see while you were there. So to find sort of those categories that can kind of sum it all up has been not the easiest thing to do, especially because we do have, like you said, a group of divine misfits. I'll say yeah, yeah, it's perfect. But to have that strong mix where I think it's important to always strive for authenticity and honesty in what you do, even if it takes you to a vulnerable place, because I think that's really where a lot of the connection happens. Walk down the street and be like hey girl, hey, you know, hey, just walk about your way. You're connecting, you're saying hi, but you're not really connected.
Speaker 2:You're saying, hey, you know, ooh, that outfit reminds me of somebody that I knew one time. It is gorgeous. And then they ask well, who was it? Oh, it was my best friend from when I was little. You know, all of a sudden you're starting to form a little bit of a deeper connection. So I think something we strive for as a group is to create that conversation with that experience. You're talking about where it's not just come, get your tickets, sit down, leave, you know? No, not at all.
Speaker 2:you're talking about where it's not just come get your tickets, sit down, leave, you know, like no, not at all. Like it is a very reciprocal thing, Like what you feel you're getting. I think it has to exist on both sides. So yeah, we've had some lovers like that, I'm sure where. I'm sure they had a good time, but where would I?
Speaker 1:sorry forgive me for that had a good time, but where was I? Sorry, forgive me for that. You know I say this too all the time. I mean there is. You guys are so deep and raw and all of your band members have been through life and then some, and it it shows on the stage. I sent a deep trust amongst all of you, and when you get up there and put it all out there for everyone to see, can you share a little bit more about your origins and the rawness of your message and what connects all of you with each other and the audience? Like, how did all of this come about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting because it's a very layered onion to peel, I guess, and it stinks, but you know. But the way that we've all met each other has been through circumstances Like there's no, like there's not a lot of courting. A lot of it has been attraction rather than promotion in some respects. I'll give a couple examples. So Michael Haberay and I so this is that 2020 year when the world was shut down and we were all kind of like confined to our houses or our bubbles or whatever. I had just moved into a new apartment after staying with my mom for seven months to help through that transition period while things were up in the air for a while, and every day, um, I always trust the universe too, so I want there's a reason for everything. I feel crazy about it, but I believe that somebody, all the time, have that conversation with them, right, like why is our energy being drawn towards each other like this right now? So Michael was one of those guys who, about the same time every day, would walk by the house, walk by the house, walk by the house and I was smoking cigarettes at the time and I lived near. The gas station was a couple blocks away, so Michael would walk there to pick up his smokes and I'd be on my front, little stoop on the corner place we had, and he would walk there to pick up his smokes. And I'd be on my front, little stoop on the corner place we had, and he would walk by and one day I said, oh, I have to ask you, excuse me. You're like, yeah, what's up, man? I said I'm just, I need to know what is your sign, as in zodiac sign, because I'm a big astrology person. So I started with with my deep question what's your sign, baby? And I was like, oh, libra. And he said, what day? And then I won't go into all the details of zodiac stuff right now, but where his libra placement is in terms of his birthday was very, is in very like kind of fulcrum point on my own chart, which is symbolic of structure and transformation. So I was like, oh, you could be important. And I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, I'm a musician. I was like, oh, really. He's like, yeah, I played guitar. I went to CSU. I said, csu, that makes some. Every musician I know that went to CSU is a fantastic musician. So anyway, check, check, check, check.
Speaker 2:And then at that time that group that kind of marched into the pandemic with each other to show signs of like stress and fracture in terms of like a unity amongst that group at that time. None of those members from that period are still in the group now. So, okay, kind of ushered in in a new era with the band, if you will, the one, the one that looks more like the band today. So like we just met randomly it was just kind of universe stuff, where it was like, oh you know, the energy was right. He was a guitar player, he hadn't been playing in a while and I think that's a theme you kind of see within a lot of the relationships in the band is that there is an element of some sort of recovery in their life, whether it be recovery of self of purpose, a recovery of certain areas in their life, whether it be finding a creative path again after a destructive period in your personal space and relationships.
Speaker 2:You can kind of see that almost systematically through everyone in the band. They're they're new. They're new to a new way of living a life that they, that they're choosing to live now, or able to choose maybe a better way to say it. The longest tenured member of the band at the current moment is a saxophone player named charlie Okay, and he's the one person who kind of snuck in into that five piece that went into the pandemic together. So Charlie's been around the longest.
Speaker 2:You can kind of go through these stories with each of the individual members, but I think that there's a certain freedom and breaking of chains, if you will.
Speaker 2:That kind of has happened with a lot of the members in the band and I think that sort of manifests and turns into the music and the experience that we cultivate. Because I think, to sum all that up, I think after a period in your life where you feel like you've only seen the trouble or you've only seen the difficulty or you've perceived things to be that way, you have a choice to get bitter or you can get better, and I feel like we look for that betterment not only in ourselves, but because we do that first for us, we can do it for each other. So I think there has to be some sort of a maturation or period in your life. I'm not saying you have to go through that to be sort of enlightened in that way, but I think it really helps, especially when you have a large group setting or something that requires a lot of collaboration across the board of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can tell that you guys really know how to work well together. Again, I come back to that word misfits. But you bring them all together and you guys are just making beautiful music. Out of all the pain in my life and I've had a lot too the one thing that saved me and it was also the most consistent thing in my life was music, and you know, I was like that grunge Nirvana girl who connected with it because I was an outcast. So what has music done for you over periods of time, from like young Mikey's relationship with music till now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always been around in my life. It really has in my life. It really has. I mean, I have pictures of me as a seven, six-year-old dressed up with a curtain rod, singing into it like it's a microphone.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I loved it so much and then it always was there. I feel like especially as sort of a and this is probably a different conversation, but I think it will lead back to what your question was but it's like, as a gay man, there's like a certain not even just as me, but in general in a society that has very heteronormative expectations and values sort of built into it, it's hard sometimes as an alternative person to the norm, if you will, or a queer person, to have that sense of what makes you normal, like what makes you not successful. But do you have a girlfriend? Do you have a good job? Do you have a wife and kids? Do you have a girlfriend? You have a good job? Do you have a wife and kids? Do you have a mortgage? And stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Like those types of questions aren't we can't do a yes or no answer and feel like we fit in or feel like we have something. So I feel like for a lot of queer people, you spend a lot of your life trying to to not only deprogram a sense of of what we're kind of growing up with, which is like Disney, princess and Prince, family values and stuff like that that that are sort of truly expressed in in a job, career and and you know the, the credit and the debt you sign up for to live a good, good american life or whatever. But it we need to kind of look for different things. It's getting different. I'll caveat this and say it's getting a little different now that there's a little bit more social awareness and acceptance. But, um, I grew up that was, you know, ellen was had just come out on tv, okay, bridge was out, so there was. There was a breaking of all that a little bit, but okay.
Speaker 2:But I think to have that sense of I need to find myself and understand, like, what is my identity in the situation. I don't think it's like a matter of not knowing who I am, but just like not being able to have sort of like a rubrics that that I can like go and check and am I doing a good job? Am I, am I a good person? If I don't have these sort of like, can I fit in with people? So music and art in general um, could throw theater in. There too was always a place where that self-expression could come out. I could find a song and if I didn't know how to express myself or how to be somewhere. Someone might have been singing a song or wrote a song or was on the radio. That made me feel good, it made me feel safe, it made me feel comfortable in my skin if you will, comfortable in my skin, if you will. And I think, as I've evolved, my relationship with music has continually evolved and I think even from a little kid, like lip syncing or belting out the tapes and the records that my dad had to, going into theater because I didn't really understand musicianship that much but I could understand singing songs because that's kind of what I grew up doing. So theater was kind of like nice little outlet to kind of be engaged in the arts without need to have any sort of.
Speaker 2:I don't come from a musical family per se, but I'm blue-collar. Dad painted houses, wallpaper, my mom worked as a nurse and my brother played sports. Uh, it's just, my older brother played sports. So I mean I kind of grew up in a very different. I played sports too growing up. I love sports, um, but the uh, but it's just like to have sort of as I went through all the without having a sort of musical guide, I had to sort of find my own path in music. Sure, still to this day, still discovering things. I'm actually sitting at a piano right now where I'm taking piano lessons now, because I never really took them on a regular or consistent basis at all. Okay, growing up. So now I'm getting curious about some other elements of how to play things and how to do things differently, how to expand those areas of musicality. That's something I'm definitely always interested in because it's something I feel like it's a lifelong journey and I definitely have a.
Speaker 2:I got a late start in terms of like, let me get into this. Let me get into like the songwriting and crafting and recording and releasing music. So some people say, oh, oscar Jones has done an album yet I'm like, well, maybe I'm still figuring out how to record an album and write it down and get all these people in the studio and what's acceptable. Because, again, it's like, with me growing up not really having like the perfect idea of what it means to have like a happy life per se. You know, creating your own happy has been been a lifelong for me.
Speaker 2:Um, and working with the band and having an unusually large band in an unusually tighter market with a lot of people who, uh, with a city, I think in cleveland, that has a mentality of like, uh, if you aren't working hard, then then you aren't going to get it, then that could be exhausting sometimes.
Speaker 2:Um, but trying to find ways to now get an album done that has a range to it, that makes sense for the band, and I think that's important as I sort of talk aloud and process this with you right now, I think it's important to understand.
Speaker 2:For me to understand too, that's just like figuring it out as I go and using resources and using what might be deemed like a weakness or a uh, a weakness or a shortcoming in some capacity, like shortcoming being you have a large band, they're harder to mobilize.
Speaker 2:You have a large band, it's harder to get everyone focused on the same thing at the same time and instead of using that as, like, I can't get this done, trying to find ways to stay engaged and active and still productive creatively is kind of where I think this past year and a half or so has really been a large focus for me and I think we're coming out of it with the right idea. So we're recording now, but it's not everyone all the time smaller little groups cutting, cutting tracks and doing stuff like that in order to build, to be successful. So we're going to hopefully have an album Nope, I don't like the word hope. We're going to have an album and it's going to have those layers to it that I think will make it interesting, even if it's not convention in a normal music create, release, sense.
Speaker 1:You know, I've always been that square trying to fit into a circle kind of thing. You know I never fit in. I was always the one that was different in the room. So I kind of thing. You know I never fit in, I was always the one that was different in the room. So I kind of understand that. But I and I also have been on this path where, you know, I've started this podcast later in life and everything I mean. It's always been a journey to where I've gotten to. But there's a saying that Hoda Kotb I don't know if you know who she is, but she has this saying that she always says write, even though you might be physically older than some of the other people that have done this or whatever. I mean, it has gotten you to where you are right in this moment in time, and it is right on time, that this is where you're supposed to be and this is what you're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2:I have a book next to my bed. It's been there for years and it's there's Always Time for Greatness. You know this book, mm-hmm. Been there for years and it's uh, there's always time for greatness. You know this book. It's just it has a different number for ages, one through 100 or something on each page, and then on each page it lists what was accomplished by someone in a historic, in a historical way or whatever at that age. So it's like bill Bill Withers didn't make his first record until he was 36 years old. Michelangelo completed the Da Vinci or the Sistine Chapel at age 33. So it's like we had a lot of these sort of where. It's like, you know, there's always time for greatness.
Speaker 1:I just interviewed a guy that was 75 years old last week and I mean he's planning things into his 80s. I mean he's got all these amazing things planned. It's never too late.
Speaker 2:No, never. I think I just posted something about, like you know just, there's a certain superpower that comes with just trusting in all things. Timing, trusting in all things, timing um, it's just one of the things that I think, because I think in in the industry too, there's a whole element around. Why haven't you achieved this yet? And trying to go off what you were saying, or like you don't have, you don't have these type of numbers. You know, everything gets real statistic and and analytics driven, if you will. So then you kind of fall into that sort of rut and that vein a little bit you start to realize, like you know what, if it's meant to be, it's not going to pass you by, and that's been sort of like a mantra I've had for years. If it doesn't come right now, you know, don't, don't worry about it too much. You know so. So it helps. It helps slow you down in a brain that wants to race to the finish line all the time.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, I love that. That is so well said. You know I'm a writer and so I can relate to a lot of the things that you're saying in a way. But with writing and singing your angst and overcoming and joy into the universe is how I see your group, and it's kind of put a twist on your life of having purpose. So what would you say your purpose is?
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is not sure, but I do think that there's an element of the word that keeps coming to my mind is freedom. I'm dancing around telling a story right now. I'm like I have a um, whether it's, I don't, I don't think it's martyrdom at all, but it's like I noticed at a certain point, maybe with some sort of like um, like god-given charisma or something like that. You know, I seem to always attract certain relationships I'm talking about relationships now, um, to my life where it's like I remember one one gentleman in particular was, uh, not super social, was kind of like oh, I'll just, I'll just be used graphic words Like he was nerdy, he was dorky, um, super smart, not not an outcast, but not really in type of a thing, and I had, I was fitting in pretty nicely.
Speaker 2:You know, I was able to sort of navigate and network my way through the sort of chicago theater community I was in at the time and we started dating and like he, eventually kind of like by the end of the relationship, we sort of flip-flop places, if you will. Like he, he was, he was, he was doing fine, had all the friends doing all this good stuff, feeling great about things, and I left the relationship feeling kind of like oh man, I gotta start over. I don't know, do this? I don't know if these people like me anymore. Blah, blah, blah. And while it sounds kind of bad, I also knew that I would be fine. So there was an element of like man, I could feel real crappy and real bad about the way this all went down and where I am at the end of that equation, if you will. But I knew I'd be good and I knew I'd be fine and if I could help him progress in his life in a way where he gets a little confidence, this plays into what, okay, okay, like, uh, motivation is with the band right now.
Speaker 2:But like, if I could help him find his, his, his, um, his I don't know what to work, his swag or the way that he just wants to live his best life and he feels like he is and I got to take a hit, I'll be back, I'll come back strong. I know I will. You know, like I would absorb that kind of like that rogue character from X-Men. You know she absorbs all the life force from somebody, not like energy vampire, but like she would absorb someone's sickness, if you will, and she would fall down and like well, I can't do it campus you know, but but like, but like in a way, just sort of like this idea of like you know, whatever your sorrow is, whatever, whatever is haunting you, you know, I can, I can handle it for you.
Speaker 2:you know, just give it to me and you can go on and be your best self.
Speaker 1:So it sounds a little psychotic maybe, but no, no, I mean, I've always I've been that person that's always like absorbed other people's things and I wanted to be there for them. What ends up happening is, I mean, it really weighs you down and it adds to everything else that you have. So it's being able to let go of that pain. I guess One of the things that helped me in my pain was getting outside of myself and helping others, and I really felt that was my purpose. That is what this podcast is about. Do you see yourself, as you're explaining that to me, do you see yourself as a vessel to help heal those who have been through hard times and let them know that they're not alone?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the. I mean, I kind of had people push me in those directions at times and I really think, like a big part of life is always giving back. I really think a big part of life is always giving back. One thing that I think is dear to both of us Love Freely, aka Chardé. She said something recently that just kind of popped my mind, popped something into alignment. It was just like you can't pour from your overfill, not from the bottom of your cup, and I think that learning over time has allowed me to be present and stable in areas of my life while still being able to live in a way that is of, frankly, service. I mean, my dad was a man of service. He was sober man for like 40 something years and helped a lot of people get clean and and you know, make, like you said, putting people in positions to be able to make better choices for themselves, and I think that's been something that's really kind of trickled down into like my DNA a little bit.
Speaker 2:One thing I heard someone say one time like the worst thing you could do to somebody is to do something that allows them to, he said, lose their faith in humanity. But I think I can translate that to become mistrusting, to become skeptical, pessimistic about things because of something you did or something you said you would do and didn't do. So you start to create this sort of like, you start to affect people in a way that is detrimental to them being present and able to to fully live, live their life. I had, I've had, many periods of my life where I've been, where I've been, that that that criminal or that robber that's robbed people of of. Uh man, this guy let me down. Or oh man, he said he would do that, he didn't do it. Or oh man, that guy's a jerk. You know, I've been that person many times.
Speaker 2:I think it's inevitable for a lot of people you know Um, but the ability to give back after periods of that time is super important.
Speaker 2:I think, and I think for me the band is a way to restore faith in people's humanity who may have had losses or or been negatively affected by relationships, people, places and things you know nouns um in in their life, that that that have come down on them in an unexpected or unforgiving way in some ways. So the band is sort of like if you look at like the alcoholics, anonymous, they have these sort of 12 steps. The eighth step is writing down your grievances that you've caused other people and the ninth step is actually reaching out to them to make amends. So in a lot of ways the band kind of functions in that capacity for me sometimes where it's like an opportunity to make amends. You know it may not be directly to the person or play people or situations from the past, but it allows fairness and balance to come back into the universe somehow, because I think most energy and most things will find its natural balance at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I think that your band has a very spiritual aspect to it and I think that that's a lot of that. I mean, where does that come from?
Speaker 2:Life. No, I think that was an element of forming the band where it was like I mean, when I came, when I moved back to Cleveland, it was blank canvas city, like there was no, there was no frame, there was no paint, it was literally just a blank canvas.
Speaker 1:Where were you at when you moved to cleveland, emotionally, spiritually?
Speaker 2:everything bankrupt bankrupt in debt, on death row, like I was. I was level, probably about halfway down that green mile. I swear to life, um, but like, uh, well, coming back with that clean slate, I was like, you know, what do I want to do with music? And, like, music, like we said, has been one of those sort of like reoccurring partners in moving through life a little bit in all situations. Um, like, I fell back in love with, like, the art of the song and power of the message and um, started playing guitar, uh, again at that point, and then so it kind of moved into that sort of area of writing and everything like that. But so when I moved back to C-town, cleveland town, in 2016, you know, I kind of had this like this sort of revived feeling about what music could do spiritually for me. Um, what it had done, you know it was, it became, it became the only thing, that was my identity. At that point, I just um, and it allowed. It allowed me to feel like I had something useful and purposeful to to bring to the world.
Speaker 2:So when I sat down in 2016 with myself for a couple of years in Cleveland, I thought what type of project do I want? This is kind of funny. My friend asked me, like I said I'm very green in a lot of ways always. But like someone came up to me and they're like so what's your project? I'm like project Nice, nice, I don't want to, but cool. So I was like I don't know, my project is a, uh, three to four year project. You know it's this community event I'd done back in chicago. But he's really asking like do you band, are you writing music, are you releasing a record? And I didn't know what that meant at the time, so I went home after that. I was was like I got to come up with a project. Now I need to be able to tell them what my project is.
Speaker 2:So I sat down to figure out what type of music I want to do. I was like I love blues music, I love singing blues music. It has that cathartic feel that I love, there's a freedom in it vocally, and was able to sit down. But I did not want blues music that sounded like blues music I grew up listening to. They don't want to do blues music that, frankly, I have no business doing exact imitations of, because it's not, again, that authenticity. It's not authentic. Um, to be honest, it looks a little um, it almost borders on a. It does border on appropriation to a certain extent, you know, depending on receiving it, um. But my perspective on it was it was not a good choice. Just do straight up blues and it's. It's an easy, accessible way into music for me because I understand the form, singing and the range of emotion and those types of things that come with it.
Speaker 2:But it was important, I think, for my life to not just sit in that sort of melancholy, wallowing element of music. And so I kind of thought, well, what's a higher idea? And this idea of spiritual awakening kept coming back Stuff I've heard from my dad over years and stuff like that and spending some times in and out of AA rooms and stuff like that, where I was like this idea of like you have these aha moments. You know, when you follow these sort of guides for living or this program for life a little bit, you start to become more present to see how things are working out for you. So that element of a spiritual awakening or a higher idea sort of started to sort of wrap in with this idea of the lower energy of sadness and grief.
Speaker 2:So the idea of apostle was the message or the spiritual awakening, and the Jones was really just this element of just everyday everybody problems. So you get the sort of spiritual awakening around hard times so that it wasn't just about the problem but it was also about the possibility that comes from the different perception and embracing a higher probability of things working out, and that's accepting that there's a message in everything. I think that's accepting that there's a way to evolve past limitations that you feel you have or have had against you at certain points. So I think that there's a lot of great elements around the music, spiritually, that comes from wanting to embrace the present and the future, if you will, and not being so stuck in the past, which is where I think a light of my life.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm a little lady shy. It's the light of my life. Oh, I'm a little lady shy.
Speaker 1:Some of your songs have really resonated with me and my family. By the way, I mean my kids. They run around just singing 10-9-8.
Speaker 2:I saw Kids love that one. That's the deepest track.
Speaker 1:Well, it's so catchy and you have some lyrics in there that I thought maybe you could talk more about, about you know 21 and on the run, and then you also say something about a different kind of grace, and I was wondering what you meant by that, I looked above and said oh God, oh Lord, what had I done?
Speaker 3:So I counted down my faith, just to find myself a different grace. And here I go, and here I go, oh Lord.
Speaker 2:So 21 on the run. So at 21, I was a pretty good guy in high school, you know, and a good guy my first couple years of college, you know, I didn't really like dive into partying or anything like that. And around that 21, age 22, 21, I started to really feel like I was on my own. I mean, I moved to Chicago when I was a teenager and I was really on my own from about like from 17, 18 on, without any family around me.
Speaker 1:Because you went to college, because I was in Chicago.
Speaker 2:My family stayed in Cleveland. Eventually they kind of went to South Carolina. Now we're all back together over the course of the last eight years but we spent a lot of time where we all drifted apart social and a different way of being out and about. Um, that does include like drugs and and drinking, going out and and really embracing like a more, a more party life, and this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier, about what is that normal? You know, like that's your idea of even as an artist or even as a gay man or even as like even as someone who's in school for theater. You know, like what do the next three years of my life look like? You know such an importance on networking and and knowing people and and the quality of the talent of the people around you. All those things were relevant and I found a lot of that talent. So I kind of got pulled into a lot of those directions because that's where a lot of the energy was the greatest at the time for me and I had no other example, no other image, no other ideal of what to strive for or who to be in stride with at the time. I will say, like nothing in my life I would go back and change at this point.
Speaker 2:But there was some stuff that happened during that period that was just like a turning point where I feel like, okay, my idea of I can live forever, or I have the same sort of freedom to dream about a perfect life, I can live into my 90s, I could have all these things that a lot of other people sometimes I could perceive, that comes easy for them, or they have parents that talk to them about finances growing up, or they understood a lot of these, these, these facts for living in the type of society we live in. That I just did not have. You know, I came from a work-on-credit family. Um, you know what to do for yourself, do something good for someone else, you know. So it's like, um, so around that time, finding that different. So the 21 on the run speaks very specifically to that period of time where I felt like there was a distinct turn in how I thought the trajectory of my life would go and I think around that time I knew it was going to be a little bit. I had a more finite appreciation for things, or I'd probably say it felt like a depreciation at that time about most things possible. But again sort of this unlimited possibility of having this full life started to become a little bit more like no things are going to be a little bit more on a difficult path for you.
Speaker 2:So I was in a tense situation around the time and the 1098 really comes out of the sort of I had never done any sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy things or anything like that. Oh, got it when. I just had never done anything like that. But I do know that this sort of I do know from working with veterans who struggle with PTSD and other elements that come out of war. War situations have this sort of tapping method they do sometimes to calm themselves down. If you're ever nervous in a situation they'll calmly just tap your chest. It kind of brings you to center like right here in this sort of soft area. I didn't know that at the time, so instinctively I almost started doing this thing around my hand. I would go 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then start on this finger 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Then I start on this finger 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Started with a 9, 8. Now I would do this over and over and over again. It was just, it was calming, it was, but it was just. It was almost like all right, this will be over or I can get out of the situation or things will be different. And it was like, literally, but in this sort of like cat, I wasn't in a cave hole Don't know if that is baby, don't, don't worry about it but it was just like. But it wasn't I about it, but it was just like um, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2:I was just sort of trapped, felt like that iron butterfly, uh situation where I was fully cognizant and aware in my head, but physically unable to move or or make a distinctive mood, so asking for different graces to really help get out of that place. I was in um to um in a more general way, but that that 10-9-8 was really. It came from that little countdown thing that I would do. Maybe in 10 seconds it will all be over and things will be good, or if I close my eyes for five seconds and open it up, the boogeyman will disappear, or something like that. I didn't see it. There's nothing there. There's nothing there. Ah, it's still freaking there, my god, oh yeah, it's still there. So it's like, but it's like, but. I think so that those lyrics in that particular case are about feeling trapped in a space, um, and with no way out, to a Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. We're almost done. I want to get home. Oh yeah, yeah, I wanna go.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I want to get home. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I want to get home. I want to get home, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Just know that wherever you go, you have home. You can always go to center. You are home for yourself and no matter what situation you're in, you are home. Remember to dig deep inside of yourself and know there's safety, know that there is love, know that you have everything you need right down inside of you and you it's, you're going home, or I mean, what are you talking about when you're talking about, I mean that's more literal than anything.
Speaker 2:Let me get the out of here and let me get my ass home. You know like.
Speaker 1:Well, you always sing it towards the end of your concerts, most of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that was. It's such an emotionally heavy song. I'm not saying it's like exhausting, but it's hard to sort of re-gear up after that tune. It's a good one to drop the mic on, if you will Got it, but also the message is time to go home. It's a pretty good message. Hey, show's over Time to go home. We'll see you next time, shall we? So?
Speaker 1:you know, as a writer, it really helped me find my voice over time. Did you find yourself in those other kinds of situations, too, where you would just grab paper to pencil, you know, pencil to paper and just start writing, and it would help you get through those tough times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I actually still have all of my old journals. Um, I have like probably I don't I don't want to over-exaggerate, but I don't want to undershoot it either but I probably have about like 15 journals that are full of sketches and doodles and stress sketches and writings and everything like that. And um, when, uh, when computers were a little, when I had a computer that wasn't as sensitive as the one I have now, you know, I could take it with me and I could sit down and open up notes, memos and just type away. And I got away from that, probably about 2015 or so, just got away from the writing and all that, from just the stream of conscious writing, if you will. Like, I'm just going to write until I, until I just feel like I got all my feelings out. I'm not saying I got away from writing altogether, but doing that style of writing and then I started to switch into more songwriting.
Speaker 2:At that point so, 2014, into 2015, about 10 years ago, I really started to switch from these sort of stream of conscious long form ideas, stress, relationship, emotional type of writing and stuff like that and turned it into more attempts at writing songs and stuff like that. And I think that's really where it has carried. That idea is still how I write songs today, not through stream of conscious writing, but I just write um. So I'll often write our songs um lyrically, without the music we do. I write songs in two, two ways primarily, probably a third, but the two more interesting ways are um, I'll sit um instead of. I was noticing I was putting a lot of good content out on Facebook about how I felt about things, or how I perceive these things in terms of posting and statuses and stuff like that. So I decided to pull off from that and if something was triggering me emotionally, I would just write a little bit in my phone without, without any music without an idea of a beat or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Add a Michael Haberay into the situation or some of the earlier guitar players we had throughout the evolution of the band so far. Ooh, baby, just play a chord progression or something. I know what words will slide right over this nicely. So we wrote Turn it Up, repeat it Again. That Way Superstar Disaster was written. That way. We have a few new songs. One is that we're in the studio right now with One's called Rover, another one's called Ain't it the Truth. There's another song called Testing 1, 2, 3, kind of a play on 10, 9, 8, if you will.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I just realized that. How funny, but it's like the. So that's one way that I love writing. Music is just writing the words and filling it in. The second option that usually comes into play is we'll write them right on the fly, right in front of people, while we're doing a three-hour barbecue gig or something. So we have a new song called Some People, where I was like, ooh, this is going to be good, isn't?
Speaker 1:it. What is it again? You broke up the song.
Speaker 2:It's called Some People.
Speaker 1:Some People okay.
Speaker 2:And this just happened last week, week before we were kind of nearing a certain point of the gig where it didn't feel right to plug in a song. So, like there's a nice energy, let's stay at this level. Just so, michael came up with a wonderful chord progression and, uh, sometimes in my phone I'll just write one lines like that kind of trigger, an idea, or can start this sort of like free, free form, free flow, like uh language, if you will around an idea or a feeling. I remember I didn't look at it at the time, but I remember this note. I can see it visually in my head. It says somebody's got to lose, was the line. That's just a note memo. Somebody's got to lose. So Michael started playing it and the whole like well, somebody's got to lose. So michael started playing it and the whole like well, somebody's got to lose. Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's you.
Speaker 2:Oh, do what you got to do and then like so, we kind of start with that and it starts off kind of vanilla, kind of like that's cute. Then it gets deeper and deeper. So I don't know, I would probably say if I were to give myself the credit of having a talent, one would be actually being able to verbally flow in the moment, um, and actually get to something that's good. So eventually, out of that sort of like it's 13 minutes long, I know because I recorded it, because I said michael's gonna be good, let me record this. So I went through and I transcribed the words down so that we could get a lyric sheet for the song and recreate it. So that has been successfully done.
Speaker 2:So from well, somebody's got to lose Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's you so do what you got to do up becoming this one line in the song and I love this line. It's like some somebody, somebody's gotta climb to a view where they can fall from how it feels to fly, not to die, but to live a side of, but to see a side of life that most people just pass by. You know, it's like so from the kind of like entry level lyric, if you will, something that has a little bit more poeticism to it and has a little bit more visual and richness around some like concepts of like jumping off the edge of a cliff or taking that dot or whatever you know, to spin it and to say you know, some people are out there like they're doing things because they want to. They want to feel something that most people are scared to feel, you know. So I really love writing music that way. Um, so it's been very fluid, especially with michael hammering, and tremendous, tremendous partner in crime when it comes to writing and creating music, and he's just so amiable and flexible and and supportive in what he does as a guitar player. He has no problem that, at least that he tells me of of sitting back and really just holding down the group.
Speaker 2:One of the rules I, the one of the only rules I have for the band in terms of a musical uh guide, if you will, is serve the song. You know, if it doesn't, like I said in 2014, I fell back in love with songs I don't have a favorite genre of music. I listened to a little bit of everything. Being able to kind of like serve the song means, if it makes sense, to not have like, let's say, keys on a song that's cool. It's not about you not being a good keys player. The song is just better without.
Speaker 2:If there's a song that serves better if one of the girls sings lead, guess what it's better for that song. What makes us for that moment, for that song and ultimately for the audience experience, is to serve what, what is going to have the most impact with the highest probability to change somebody or to uplift them or to make them feel inspired. And I think we walk around with such a low fuel tank of inspiration sometimes, because a lot of it is like. It's like those gas stations put water in the gasoline. It looks full. That baby's going down real fast.
Speaker 3:Those gas stations put water in the gasoline it looks full, that baby's going down real fast.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of those fluffy like messages and mantras that are very encouraging sometimes. I'm not going to hold anything against them, but if that's your only fuel for life, you're constantly going to have to refuel. So I think putting some genuine inspiration by making the moments as great as they can be and utilizing the talents of the people that have them and are willing to share them in a giving and fulfilling way for themselves and others is one of those things that I think really comes out of that serve the song method that I think really comes out of that serve the song method. When you can create those songs, you can create uniqueness and that more authentic feeling too.
Speaker 1:One thing about your band is everybody takes center stage at some point.
Speaker 2:As far as I'm concerned, if everyone's on stage, everyone's center stage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's how it appears as an audience member. You know, I wrote a book and it was a while ago, but one of the things that I instantly related the woman that I related to the most in the Bible was the sinful woman just known for her sin, you know she wasn't.
Speaker 2:What was her name? The sinful woman.
Speaker 1:She was known as the sinful woman in Luke 7.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I mean the church leaders, I think.
Speaker 1:I know her, you do. But anyway, the church leaders and everybody were just looking at her and they're just pointing at her and they're just say you know, she's a sinful woman Again, no name or anything. And I was also. I worked in the jail system for a stint and the women in there, I loved them and I related so much with them. But one of the things that they would do is that they would see themselves for what they did. Or, you know, they'd just be like hi, I'm so-and-so and I'm a murderer or I'm a prostitute, and that's how they saw themselves as somebody in a moment in time, something that they did wrong, and that's their definition of themselves. Or they allowed other definitions of themselves and shame and everything to overtake their own voices of themselves. Did you ever have other voices louder than yours, to keep you from believing in yourself?
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to part one of Mikey Silas's interview. If you want the answer to that question, you're going to have to stay tuned for part two. Thank you again for listening and remember that you can catch us on our Facebook page, real Talk with Tina and Anne. You can go to realtalktinaannecom and catch all of our episodes. We are on all of the podcast platforms radio stations, a couple television stations and you can catch them all if you go to realtalktinaannecom. Thank you for your support. We love you and remember there is purposecom. Thank you for your support. We love you and remember there is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
