Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
The Worst Thing You Could do to Someone
What happens when someone you trust deeply causes you to lose faith in humanity? On this emotional episode of Real Talk with Tina and Ann, we welcome back Tina from her summer break and reflect on a profound statement by our previous guest, Mikey Silas. Mikey, an artist and musician, highlights the worst thing you could do to another person. Tina and Ann challenge the old adage, "sticks and stones." The pair discuss personal experiences, showing just how deeply people's actions can impact our lives.
What happens when people close to you or people of authority, wrong you and make you question yourself? This episode promises a raw and honest conversation about the importance of being heard and the journey towards healing from profound emotional wounds. Tune in for an exploration of how we lose a piece of ourselves and trust in people each time our souls are crushed, whether by betrayal, disappointment, or heartbreak—there’s an unspoken loss that runs deeper than we often acknowledge. It's not just the immediate pain or the sting of rejection that lingers; it's the quiet dismantling of something within us. A piece of ourselves slips away in these moments, a part we once trusted to be whole, resilient, and strong.
When we experience these moments of deep hurt, it’s not just a singular event—it’s the erosion of trust, not only in the people around us but also in our own ability to discern, connect, and remain open. We begin to question the reliability of our instincts. Was I too naïve? Should I have seen this coming? With each question, doubt creeps in like a shadow, darkening the trust we once gave freely.
That trust we had in others, in the goodness of people or in love itself, becomes guarded. The heart, once eager to give, becomes hesitant, fortifying itself behind walls built from past wounds.
In losing trust, we also lose a piece of ourselves—our innocence, our belief that people are inherently good or that love is pure. These pieces, once scattered, make it harder to find joy in human connection. And as much as we’d like to believe we can rebuild fully, those broken pieces are hard to mend perfectly. There’s always a scar, a reminder of what was lost and what we fear losing again.
Yet, even though we lose parts of ourselves along the way, we also gain something—a deeper understanding of our capacity to endure, to rebuild in ways we couldn’t imagine. While trust may be harder to come by, we develop a stronger sense of self-awareness, a sharper intuition. Though we may mourn the innocence that’s gone, perhaps in its place, we gain wisdom—the ability to discern who truly deserves access to the fragile, precious parts of our soul.
In the end, losing a piece of ourselves doesn’t mean we’re left incomplete forever. It means we grow in ways that allow us to protect what remains, to heal, and maybe one day, to trust again—but this time, with eyes wide open.
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Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Ann. I am Tina.
Speaker 2:And I am Ann, and I first off want to just like scream at the top of my lungs because I am just so excited that you are here, tina, because I have missed you so much, and I know that our listeners have, and I know that our listeners have Well, thank you, it's good to be back.
Speaker 1:It was nice to have the summer off and be able to focus on all of the chaos that is life, but it's also good to be back and especially get to talk with you and get back into the oh. What are we going to chat about this week? And hopefully we help some listeners along the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, there's nothing like you and me together, so it is a blessing and I have to have us back together again. You know, but when you were on break.
Speaker 2:When you were on break, I had this man on, mikey Silas, and he, you know he's a really cool guy, so profound with his words, he's a musician, an artist and such a wise man, and when he would talk I can't tell you how many times that he stopped me in my tracks because I think that his words actually could resonate with every single person, actually could resonate with every single person. One of the things that he said was the worst thing you could do to someone is and first of all, I just want to sit there for a minute, because when you think about that, you think about the words. If somebody would say to you what are the words? What's the worst thing that somebody could say? What's the worst thing that somebody could do to you, I mean I think that we could just list. I mean people would just.
Speaker 2:I wish that our listeners were right here in this room, because I think that they would just start spouting off all these things that people would do or say, and you know, but I think that every single thing that anybody would list would fall under the umbrella of what Mikey said. So this is what he said, and first I want to preface it by saying that I've actually thought about this many times because of something that the Bible says. So if that piqued your interest too. So what he said was the worst thing that you could do to someone is to do something to them that causes them to lose their faith in humanity, to become mistrusting, to become skeptical. To become mistrusting, to become skeptical, to become pessimistic, because of something that you did, or something you said that you would do and you didn't do, and it affected them deeply. These actions can affect people in a way that is so detrimental that they are not able to fully live their life. I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:Wow. So you shared this with me and that stopped me in my tracks and I thought he is absolutely right and some of the words that were coming to me are in things of, the worst thing you could do to someone is backstab them, lie to them or about them, gaslight them, betray them. I think you're right. That all falls under all of the things that he is saying, because it causes mistrust. I am outside today. I am so sorry. If you can hear all of that, that noise, I can totally just see so many things falling under that umbrella. Like you said, and it you know.
Speaker 1:The other reason that I love this is because I think we've all heard the quote sticks and stones will break my bones. Words will never hurt me. And we've all heard people say, well, break my bones, words will never hurt me. And we've all heard people say, well, you know, you don't, don't let them impact, you, don't let their words hurt you. You have control. And it's like sometimes you really don't. And that's what I loved about him saying this. It's like it took away that whole feeling of, well gosh, I'm feeling this way because someone did this to me or that to me and I guess I'm not supposed to, I'm, I'm letting it in. You know, I feel like the old saying kind of flips the script and it makes you feel like you're the villain in your own story.
Speaker 2:And it's like no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I love this because it's a shared responsibility, if you will. People truly can and their words truly can have and their actions truly can have a positive or negative impact, absolutely Can hurt or can heal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean in this episode, like you said. I mean this is a shift of how we have talked about this before in the past, I think, because normally, you know, I'll say things like it's my fault if I've allowed a person who has wronged me deeply to affect my view of humanity or of myself, or if what they did or said stripped me of a little hope or maybe even a lot of hope, did or said stripped me of a little hope or maybe even a lot of hope, when in reality, here we are saying what if their words or actions really did take away a little bit or a lot of who we are?
Speaker 1:Or what if they hurt us?
Speaker 2:so much that it leaves us lying on the floor, either figuratively or literally, because I've had that happen to me literally. But can we get back up, course?
Speaker 1:yes, we can, but I think that still a part of us is still lying on that floor. I think it can take a long time for every single piece of you to get back up and you know, this summer was a fair amount of that for me in the youth sports world. I don't understand why youth sports is so dramatic and cutthroat. We are not those people, and I won't even get into the whole thing, but a lot of the things I said, a lot of the things that Mikey Silas said, I can totally agree with, because it happened to me and other people this summer and I got to tell you I was lying on the ground for a couple of days in complete and utter shock and disbelief over the way that some people can treat other people and how, you know, I I sent a quote and I'm going to go back to it and for anyone who subscribes to our newsletter, this will be in there too. But this, this is what in part healed me from some of the drama this summer and the backstabbing and the lying and the betrayal and the gaslighting and everything, the betrayal and the gaslighting and everything. And it was.
Speaker 1:I don't know who the quote belongs to, because this is the other thing. You've always, you know, you always hear there are two sides to every story. Well, yeah, there, sometimes there's a side, sometimes there's a lie. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:So, the.
Speaker 1:the quote that just stopped me in my tracks was stop choosing without knowing the actual story. You'll be surprised how dirty some people are. Some people create situations and play victim, Isn't that the?
Speaker 2:truth. Well, I think that might be the definition of a narcissist. I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure I know a few names that would go next to that as well, to fit the definition. But hearing it that way, it was like absolutely Absolutely. I'm sure so many of you who are listening can sadly nod your head in agreement to like you're right, some people really are dirty. They play the victim when they are in fact the villain and that, oh that just gets under my skin. So, yeah, I do still think healing is possible.
Speaker 1:If you can be hurt, you can heal, just like your body if it's hurt, I think it can heal. I truly believe that. But it does take time and I do think then it takes boundaries put in place. I have some pretty thick, firm boundaries in place with several people and I'm not sorry about it because my piece is worth protecting and if anybody who doesn't you know, who goes with the wrong crowd, believes whatever garbage they're saying, then they weren't really friends with me anyway. So you know, but it is hard, it definitely is hard. I think that you absolutely can get stuck on the ground for a while and, to be completely transparent, I'm not fully healed from the things that have happened, you know, this summer with some people, in part because you know, the ones that you know, people who maybe aren't that important to you.
Speaker 2:That's easier to just write off, but there were one or two that really surprised me and um, were they closer to you, cause sometimes the ones who are closer to you are the ones that can hurt the most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean of the group it was. You know, one of my friend's dads felt like a brother to me and he knew that because I told him that and so he, I think, was the worst culprit of them all and absolutely left me lying on the couch in complete I couldn't even speak, with the nastiness and the gaslighting that that was used. So I you know, I feel for anyone who's gone through that too, because gaslighting is a very interesting manipulative, narcissistic thing and it's really awful. It's really awful. It really messes with your mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know a couple things. Um, the one thing that when you were talking and you said about knowing both sides of the story, you know I that is so powerful because nobody else was in that room. You know, nobody knows, they only know what this person says, or what this person says, and unless you were in the room and you witnessed it, and even then you don't know the backstory completely because you haven't been in the room. Every single time these two people have been in the room. So you, you can't really make an educated opinion. Now, of course know I would always side with my friend because I know you, I know what type of person you are, I know what you're capable of and who you are in other situations and with me. So I doubt 100% what that other person would say.
Speaker 1:Of course, oh, I know, yeah. Would say, of course. Oh, I know, yeah. And it's like I know the things being said aren't true. But you're like how did you even come about that? How? How does one actually make things up and actually try to plot against you? See, that's what I don't like. I don't like the feeling of knowing that someone is out to get me and I'm not sitting here playing the victim. See, that's what I don't like. I don't like the feeling of knowing that someone is out to get me and I'm not sitting here playing the victim. So if anyone's like, oh, she's playing victim, no, I'm just telling you the truth. I don't like that feeling.
Speaker 2:And that's.
Speaker 1:That's what's going on.
Speaker 2:I think and I have a visual in my head every when you were talking of when anybody ever does anything to us. It's like this image of us and like there's a little piece that just goes off and it's floating away and another piece goes off and it just floats away. So there's less of us. Each time, you know, I've had my breath taken away when you talked about that. I've had my breath taken away for me and lost my voice at times from something that someone has done or said and I'm not sure what the age cutoff is for this.
Speaker 2:But me you know, having read the Bible, and this has always stuck with me Jesus said in Matthew 18, 6, and you can take it for whatever it is, in whatever direction it is you want to with it.
Speaker 2:But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble by leading him away from my teaching so let me say that one more time Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me, who would be Jesus, to stumble by leading him away from my teaching, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Speaker 2:I can't tell you how many times I have thought of that, but when I was thinking about this episode, you can take it either literal or figurative when you think about the words little ones, Because to me, of course, at first you go to a child, but then you can twist the words not to misrepresent the words. But little one could be a brand new person with God, Sure, with God. It could be somebody who's vulnerable, mentally young, somebody disabled, someone who in that moment in time, is looking to the person of power in a way that they actually can become prey. And I would also take this to the point where, if they're drawn away from God's teaching, when someone is detrimental to them because every single person're hurt, a piece of God can just go floating off your belief in him and how he you feel that he believes about you. You know, I mean, I think that you could get harder and and you would, you would hurt more inside period. Do you have any thoughts about any of that?
Speaker 1:I feel like that's where I'm at. I feel like, for example and it's not so much with the recent situation I was just talking about, but I feel like that was a great example of what my mom's early onset Alzheimer's disease has done to me. You know, through all of the other hurt and pain that has gone on in my life.
Speaker 1:I've never really been angry. I feel like I've handled it well or been understanding, or I don't know. I don't even really quite know how to describe it. I've just never felt so angry and so like stay back, God, because if this is what it's like to follow you, I'm struggling here. So it's not that I'm not a believer anymore or anything like that. I just it's like I've said, I think before, I need some grace and space, and if it's true that he'll be there to come back for the one, then I believe there will be a time that I will come back, which is interesting because my husband just recently over the weekend, was asking how I felt about getting back into church and I was just like, oh, you know, I was like I don't feel like you know.
Speaker 1:Part of it is I don't feel like adding another commitment to our plate. Part of it is I'd like to be able to sleep in one day a week, just one. And then the bigger part of it is I do believe in fake it till you make it in some instances, but there's feel something wrong about it. Just doesn't sit well with me if I were to go into church and I would be praising God, but I don't really feel that way. It goes all back to the feeling I know we've talked about this over and over and over and it's that feeling that I can't get what I'm supposed to know and my feelings to be lined up. And so I just you know how you described it, you've just, you've really got me thinking.
Speaker 1:I think that that might be what's happening. And they always say the thing that you want it's just just for you know, myself and my kids to use. I don't sell them or anything like that, but I am intrigued by them. I do use them, you know, pretty frequently, and even in the oil community they will say the oil that smells the worst, to use the one that you need the most.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if there's really any truth to it, but that's just what I'm told I've never heard that it's like I said I don't really know if there's truth to it Like I hate the smell of tea tree. I will never like the smell of tea tree oil, but I love what it can do. You know, absolutely love all of the things it can do. That's crazy, so I know, very interesting. Anyway, what do I think about it? I think that that is exactly where I am and you're right. I feel like probably the thing I need would be to get back into church and fill myself back up again, because there are pieces that have come off in all of my hurt over the last.
Speaker 1:Going on five years. I can't even believe it's been almost five years that my mom was diagnosed and you know it's, it's gone downhill so quick and yeah, so that's. I think you're right and I think that I think that that's where I am and I'm willing to bet that some of you watching and listening might be there too, and it's okay. I want to say it's okay. Really. I think we need to embrace where we are. Oh, absolutely Know that our feelings are valid and I think I'm still on the same road, but I may have taken a little bit of a different path to get a little bit of distance from God right now, just in the season that I'm in, because it's so hard with my mom. You know I don't want this to drag on for 10 more years. I truly don't. So that was so good how you described it.
Speaker 2:Really spot on. I and I'll talk about this more in a little bit but I was hurt in the church and you know, I've never gone back really to a physical church. I've tried here and there Do. I think it's God's fault, no, but I don't trust a lot of godly people, let's put it that way. Sure, and they really did put a wedge between me and the church and and I think, between me and god, honestly, um, when we were talking about this, you know, I mean, I've had my life flashing before me and there are people that I honestly this is what I want to say to them you know, not that I'm not going to let your words hurt me. I want to say, no, you hurt me, you took something from me that I can never get back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how powerful is that? Don't you feel like, wow, talk about turning the table.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean so many times. That's what we normally want to do, because, oh, you know, no, I'm not going to let you hurt me. It's like you hurt me.
Speaker 1:Right, right and you know what. Honestly, going back to what I was telling you about the situation in youth sports earlier, I think that's why I became a target is because I put my foot down and I said this isn't right, and because I didn't go with the crowd, because it was wrong. It was wrong, what was going on. Then it came on me and it's like that's okay, you know. Yes, was I hurt? Yep, am I still healing? Sure, am.
Speaker 2:But do I still stand my ground? Absolutely no regrets. Yeah, you know I it spoke of a child in that verse, or a young person, however, like like I said, however, you want to use those words cause I think they can be used in many different ways, because I think they can be used in many different ways. But I think of the innocence of a child and how they are born. And I remember holding my kids after they were born. They've all been adopted, but a few of them I have held shortly after they were born and you know I can remember just holding, like I wanted that moment to stay there forever because, as time has gone, I have gradually watched their view of the world of life and humanity change and I've watched them come home.
Speaker 2:You know, hurt from their peers, hurt from adults. You know, hurt from their peers, hurt from adults, one not wanting to ever go back to school because a teacher hurt him. You know my daughter being so mistrusting and having some mental health issues at such a young age because of the abuse that she's endured at such a young age before I adopted her. You know there is this show called Love on the Spectrum on Netflix and it has this adult autistic man named Tanner and he is the absolute cutest, sweetest man. And I'll tell you what if anybody hurt him, I would go after them. I mean, he's just so innocent and I think that if no matter if you looked at him and hurt him with words or whatever, he would just smile back. You know, and it just makes me so mad that people are like that, but I still think that even if that happens and he does smile back, that there's a piece of him that's going to be different. I really think that.
Speaker 1:And I think you absolutely could be right. So I want to tell you about a story that just happened recently. My youngest is four and he started preschool this year. It's a half a day and he goes in the afternoon, so he's been going for several weeks and I didn't realize how ready he was. I thought he would be my clinger to me and he was ready to spread his wings and fly, and so it's made the transition for me easier, because I cried the most sending him off, because there's something hard about watching all of my last firsts yeah, go, you know, right before my eyes. So last week, on Thursday, which was his last day of school for the week, he I picked him up, he got in the van and he was visibly sad and that's never happened.
Speaker 1:Coming home from school and I said, buddy, how was your day? He said I got in big trouble. I said what do you mean? You got in big trouble? What well? What happened? He said when I got to school I was talking to a girl and showing her this little stuffed animal that he had gotten from the dentist's office earlier that day. He said I was just talking and a teacher came by and told me to shut my mouth and I was like what he goes? Yeah, he goes. It made me sad and it broke my heart. I said oh, buddy, are you? I mean he remembered it. It bothered him the whole day.
Speaker 1:So I came home and I sent a message to his teacher. I said listen, this is what my son said. It wasn't you, but he's saying it was. It was a teacher that said this to him. Could you look into it? So she looks into it the next day and says I showed my son the picture of the teacher's aid I can't remember the name of this teacher's aid and he said yeah, that's who said it to me. He said it was her.
Speaker 1:So I told his teacher that she asks her and she said no, I didn't say that. And she didn't hear anybody say that to him. And she said you know, he's not shown any defiance at all, he's one of the quieter kids. And I was like nothing, huh? And she said no, and and the teacher said but I am going to keep my ears and eyes open. And I said that's good, because I really do believe my son. I, I really do. I don't know what else to tell you, but I, I do believe him. I also believe in mistakes. You know second chances, things like that I said. But if I do find out that this happens again, or you know, I said I will come into the school and I will be happy to sit down with someone and teach them the kind ways to tell a four-year-old to be quiet. It's not like he was running rampant down the hallways or something.
Speaker 1:I don't know. He was just simply talking to the girl next to his locker and he even said I wasn't being a good listener. So my assumption is someone should have told him to be quiet, not shut your mouth. The reason I'm telling you this story is for what you were just saying before this.
Speaker 1:I feel like how hard is it to pick and choose our words more carefully? How hard is it to choose kindness? It really isn't. I mean, that should have been a no-brainer. So whoever said it I really don't think it was at all necessary, especially for a little boy whose first year in school was just talking could have just said we need to be quiet, or we need to use our inside voice, or it's time to get into the classroom now so many other things you could say. Then shut your mouth because that really hurt him, because he is so sensitive and so I you know, maybe to some listening or watching, you're like well, that's not a big deal, that's okay. Maybe it's not, but to me it is, because we preach, preach, preach and and model kindness and the words we say matter.
Speaker 1:And so I felt like it goes along with what you were just talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to tell you why it's important, why it isn't small, because you believed him and that's so crucial to our littles. They know that they are believed and they are heard. And you know because my son last year had an incident with a teacher, didn't go for a couple months, had to be administratively placed at a different school. And you know he's not one, he loves school.
Speaker 2:He loves school now and he's not getting into any trouble or anything. He is ornery. You know he's a boy and he likes to do some crazy boy stuff. Was he? Is he always right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not, and I will, you know, be the first person to say he was wrong. But you know, when he felt the way he felt and it was so strong and I backed him up and I believed in him because I was seeing what was happening, yeah, I mean, it really does make a difference. You know, I wrote a person in my past who had hurt me greatly. But quickly, I just want to tell the situation real fast. I was hurt by somebody in the church and I went to the administration of the church and I told them what happened and the person who did what they did, you know what they did will never be erased from my body.
Speaker 2:But what the pastor and the female administrator did, I believe, was worse. They didn't believe me. They blamed me. I wrote both of them. Of course, neither of them responded. I ran into this woman decades later at an event and I had the chance to just say to her you know, have you ever thought about that anymore? You know when you could have handled it differently, when you could have handled it differently? And she just looked at me and, instead of apologizing or whatever she could have said, she just said you're not over that yet.
Speaker 2:So you know, it just hits you in the gut. And, first of all, it's confusing when those who are well-respected are doing something to you that's not right. Right, like your son, the teacher, somebody they're respected they're doing something wrong to you, his mom or whoever. Or, in this case, if I knew of somebody who respected, they're well-respected and they respect those elders in the church, the administrators, the pastors. It's confusing. And then they send off this thing, especially in a church situation, especially in a church situation that it makes you believe that you're the one that's wrong. Right, and if, yeah, and if you, if they sent off this message to me that you know if you don't believe me, then God doesn't believe me, if you're telling me you don't want me around anymore, then it feels like God is rejecting me. So it is so important how we as parents or whoever you know, that we really let the people know that they're heard and that they're believed.
Speaker 1:It really sends off a message world changers aren't pleasing everybody, they're just not.
