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Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Unlocking Independence: Building Life Skills and Connections on the Autism Spectrum Part 2 with Ron Sandison
What if the key to unlocking independence for individuals with autism begins with understanding their unique perspective? Join us as we explore the journey of building relationships and developing life skills. In this episode, we dive into the world of autism literature as Ron discusses his book, Adulting on the Spectrum: An Insider's Guide to Navigating Life with Autism. He also talks about two of his other books, A Parent's Guide to Autism and Views from the Spectrum. Drawing from personal experiences, Ron and Ann reflect on being autistic and raising children on the spectrum.
We emphasize the importance of life skills and job skills in shaping future success for those on the spectrum. From early side hustles, like reselling ties, to stories of missed networking opportunities during college, Ron highlights the value of advocacy and the challenges and opportunities in today’s social media-driven world.
This episode also delves into the unique communication styles of people on the spectrum. Every person with autism has a distinct way of communicating, and understanding that person's language style is key. Ron and Ann discuss practical strategies for seeking accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act and the importance of perseverance.
This episode is a valuable resource for parents and individuals striving to connect with and support those on the autism spectrum. Listen in to discover how advocacy and understanding can pave the way for a brighter future.
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world changers aren't pleasing everybody, they're just not.
Speaker 2:You know you have written books and you have one coming out in March.
Speaker 1:So it's going to be Adulting on the Spectrum an Insider's Guide to Navigating Life with Autism. And then my first book was a Parent's Guide to Autism Practical Advice, biblical Wisdom. It's a top-selling Christian book on autism and parenting all the time. And then my third book was Views on the Spectrum and Inside the Life and Faith of your Neurodivergent Child. Obviously, I didn't come up with these titles because they're tongue twisters, and my newest book is going to teach people how to develop those skills and it's written for young adults. It's a map to success in life and the good thing today now is we don't need maps anymore, we have GPS, and I like to say my book is a GPS because they're going along, they realize I have this issue, they open it up, the tells them exactly um the ways to develop those skills and they have um activities that are fun to do and as they do those activities, they're wax on, wax off, they learn and they apply okay, will it?
Speaker 2:will any person with autism get something out of this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it begins with the simplest things learning skills to be independent, goes on to the pitfalls of relationships and how to build friendships, and every topic you can think of. How does your brain process information? Because when you know how your brain processes information, you can realize how you can use that to your advantage and be able to accomplish great things. Also, sensory issues If you're overwhelmed by anxiety, overwhelmed by depression, you're going to miss out on opportunities. I'm going to share real quick. There's a study.
Speaker 1:A guy named Dr Richard Wiseman, you notice some people came and said I'm the luckiest man in the world or luckiest woman in the world. I married the right person, everything goes right. There are other people who are more like us on the spectrum I'm the least lucky person in the world. I lose my job, I break my arm and then next day I break my leg. And he knew there was no such thing as luck. So he took 150 people identify as lucky, 150 people identify as unlucky and did an experiment by sending him to a coffee shop and he was amazed by the results. So he told him that you're gonna meet someone amazing opportunity If you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you're gonna miss out on that opportunity.
Speaker 1:But the real test was this there was a $20 bill in front of the coffee shop and the 150 who identified as lucky, 80% found the $20 bill. Of the 150 who identified as unlucky, only 20%. So he did a psychological analysis of all 300, and he discovered this the ones who found it were lucky. They came there, they were in the moment they were thinking about there's a great connection. They could hear the birds, they could see the sun and, since they were in the moment, they saw a $20 bill under their nose and picked up.
Speaker 1:The ones who didn't find it, who are more like people with autism. They had anxiety. They were thinking about when I get home, I got this project, I got to change diapers, I got to do this and this, and they were so overwhelmed by their environment and their circumstances that they were unable to see a $20 bill under their nose. And that's why a lot of times, people with autism are like that 30-year-old Velcro shoes we're unaware of our environment and the people around us who actually make us successful in life and be able to thrive in life.
Speaker 2:That is one of the best visuals I have ever heard about that. That is so good.
Speaker 1:Now. I don't miss out on any of those opportunities.
Speaker 2:And I don't either. I don't either, I don't either. And and I have learned to show up, pay attention, be more vigilant, pay attention to everything in my surroundings. It's difficult on the spectrum because you take everything in, you take everything in, and so it's hard to you know in, uh, separate everything in order to experience it the way other people do. So it's taken a really long time for me to learn that, and when I have my external brains, or whatever you want to call them, it really does help me be able to do that better. But my son, who's on the spectrum, he would find that $20 bill. He finds everything on the ground. He he can find a penny anywhere we are, so it's so cool. So, um, how can they pre-order this book?
Speaker 1:february they'll be able to pre-order. So again, it's adulting on the spectrum, an insider's guide for navigating life with autism, and my other three books are on Amazon. They're in Barnes and Nobles. You can go to their sites and get them on there.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about those books because I'm very interested in them. A Parent's Guide to Autism. This is a Christian guide to autism how, as a believer, we can respond to these challenges, which is very interesting to me. This is the first Christian book on autism by someone with autism, and you wrote it to help parents raise autistic children. So if you could tell us a little bit about it and some of the people that you interviewed for it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when I wrote Appearance Guide to Autism, I interviewed 50 of the most influential people in the world who work in the autism field and I shared 20 amazing young adult stories in there. And some of the people are like Dr Temple Grandin. I've been able to present with her three times, twice in person. Dr Lynn Coiney, the founder of UCLA Autism Center. I share Michael Branning's story in here. He's a track runner. I share Anthony Torello's story in here. He's a football player who used my case.
Speaker 1:Sandison versus the MHSAA compete in New Jersey, past the age limit, is a place kicker and ESPN did a movie on them, documentary called Kick Up Hope, and I share the information. This is everything you need to know from the moment your child is diagnosed until they enter adulthood. And then my book Views from the Spectrum A Window in the Life and Faith in a Neurodivergent Child. I share the stories of 20 amazing people on the autism spectrum. People like Rachel Barcelona, who's Miss Florida right now could be Miss America. Tarco, a pro baseball player. Armani Williams, who's right from Grosse Pointe, michigan I've been able to go to his house before. He's a NASCAR driver and I share their stories. It's filled, packed with scripture. It also gives advice with helping your young adults to thrive not only in life but in faith on the spectrum.
Speaker 2:So what was your takeaway when you would interview each of these people? I mean, I'm thinking of Temple Grandin, but I mean you talked to some pretty amazing people, so did you take away something from each one of them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what I discovered is what I mentioned earlier is that all of them had someone who believed in them and someone who was able to market their gifts. And those are the two things you got to always ask yourself what gift does this kid have? How can we use this gift to adapt and accommodate for their limitation? How can we build connections in a whole village that defends them and protects them and also teaches them? If I give you a fish today, you're going to come back and want to fish tomorrow. If I give you a pole and teach you how to fish, you're going to come back and want to fish tomorrow. If I give you a pole and teach you how to fish, you're going to be self-efficient good for your mom, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, and your dad and my dad.
Speaker 1:He, though, had that philosophy you throw him in the pool, watch him swim and they'll learn to swim. So they had two poor um approaches, but it was balance in the pores. Well, that's good too. Yeah, because he had to be getting a job at age 14. See, and then that helped me learn those skills. And he had a three-prong rule to money First, 10% goes to God, second, 10% goes in saving, and 80% you spend as you want.
Speaker 1:But here's the kicker he did that taught me sales. If I wanted a pair of Airwalks, I wanted a pair of Michael Jordans, I had to first go to Payless, write down the price, then go to Foot Locker and figure out the price, and then he'd pay me whatever pay less offered if I did that. So then I learned the budget, that there's not just one type of shoe and that get ultra focus on it, but there's choices. It can save you money, and I've always been great at savings. I'm putting down 155 000 towards the house, so I'm only getting a mortgage for $85,000. And I still have three accounts. But he taught me how to budget like that.
Speaker 1:See, that is so important to learn really young that is so great that your dad did that and how to make money on the side, and I've never not been able to make money on the side, whether it's in college and you had to wear ties at Oral Roberts University. I went around had every senior donate their ties incoming freshmen. This is a $50 tie Today only you can get it for $10. And then there are ultra rich kids at ORU. They just throw their books away. Go around, get their books, sell them back and you could pay for back then maybe a 30-year semester in college. That was when college was about $10,000 a year.
Speaker 2:So you had some side hustles.
Speaker 1:Oh, I always had side hustles, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's amazing that you figured out. Hey, these kids are throwing away their ties, they're throwing away their books.
Speaker 1:There's a job here, it all happened because I saw a Jerry Garcia tie getting thrown away and I like Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead and I said, hey, can I have that tie? Yeah, I'm never going to wear a tie again. So then I realized all the seniors are in this location. That's where you go and get those free ties. And then you sold them, yeah, and then you sell them, you know, and then you keep ones that you like. Maybe one funny tie like a winnie the pooh, but a lot of ties like the jerry garcia's had designs like this, real nice designs. Even those were like 50 dollars, which would be equivalent today to probably $80 to $100 for a child, and those kids didn't care because they're rich families. A lot of ORUs. I call it the Ivy League of television evangelists.
Speaker 2:Well, that's amazing that you figured that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that you did it. I had a roommate.
Speaker 1:He's a founder of bio trust nutrients. His one book alone, myth of eden, after 7 pm. So 1.2 million copies. The guys were 500 million. I was a roommate with him for a whole year and I never made that connection. Jesus the Feminist, the author of that, sarah Bozzi I sat next to her for over a year during breakfast every day because she had the same classes and she became a New York Times best selling author and I never was able to cash in on those opportunities and that's like that, because I was so anxious in college, I was so focused on my papers that I missed out on the real connections and the real connections and the real treasures that were around me, which are the people around me. So I've learned now to build those connections, make them strong and sturdy.
Speaker 2:Which has to do with against autism, because we have a hard time making connections, and you've learned how to do that.
Speaker 1:I have finally Go ahead. Here's an example you build a connection because I contacted you. I say when people contact you, that's when you know you have the ability to connect and that's what I've gotten. Now you've gotten to that place too.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and over the last couple months I by saying yes, showing up, trying to make connections with people. I just keep making more connections. The more connections you make, the more connections you make. Now use the quote that I had heard, that it was one in every 60 children will be diagnosed with autism. Is it more than that now?
Speaker 1:No one in every 36 children.
Speaker 2:I can't. That is such a big number.
Speaker 1:Yes, and here's the thing. So it's about 5% of the population is autism and it's a spectrum and that's the most logical mind, and three out of four people with autism are male. Three out of four people who are borderline disorder are female and it's the most emotional mind and it's about five percent of the population. So the most logical mind is autism. The most emotional mind is borderline. And then when you don't have the extremes, that's where we talk about typical and not being neurodiverse.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, that is a lot of people and it's the schools. And you know, I've gone to even just a coffee shop and I had this experience happen to me. I went into a coffee shop in LA and I said you know what I wanted? And she just what. And I said what I wanted and she's like are you talking to me? Because you weren't sure, aren't looking at me.
Speaker 2:And I thought, really, is that where we are, where people that are behind the cash register or in service industries are not able to know that there could be somebody on the other side of that counter? That has some differences, and for you to call me out like that was pretty rude. I also have another experience where I was going through metal detectors at an airport and they were like so fast you know my processing is not near as fast as other people and they're like put this here, do this, do this, put your arms up? No, not like that, like this. And it made me feel my anxiety went straight up. I was unable to really do some of the things that he wanted me to do in the moment because it was just so fast and you know, is trying to the world around us to understand if there are that many people out there that have autism. They need to figure something out to adjust, they need to yeah, I agree yeah it would help us out tremendously.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that our anxiety would be down. I think that people would be able to go out into the world a little bit more if they had something like that. And advocacy is everything you know. You started a program, Spectrum a program on advocacy, and I can tell you, having three kids with autism, I feel that that is my full-time job. So can you tell us more about Spectrum?
Speaker 1:Yes, I founded Spectrum Inclusion and it gets about 10,000 views a month and it's resources to empower young adults with autism for independent relationships and employment and I go around the country speaking on autism. If you have a church and you're hearing me, email me at Sandison S-A-N-D-I-S-O-N. 456 at hotmailcom and I'd love to come out and speak at your church and do a conference there and help you guys develop the skills in your kid for them to be independent and thrive on the spectrum rather than just survive. So the resources are out there. I provide training on how to develop those gifts and talents in kids.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. You know what are some, as you're talking about spectrum. What are some specific tools and strategies that you could recommend for parents who are struggling to connect with their autistic child? Because I have a friend of mine who has two kids where the connection is really really difficult.
Speaker 1:So what you want to do is learn how to adapt. If I went to europe today, I plug in my electrical shaver, press the button nothing's gonna happen. But if I have an adapter and understand and put that in the currency is going to work and I can use my electric shaver, understand the autistic language, understand the autistic processing of the brain, then you got the adapter. Now you got the strength which you plug into that adapter and then you can overcome those limitations and build those connections.
Speaker 2:And not everybody that has autism is the same and has the same language.
Speaker 1:You got it? Yep, there's a kid we had years ago in the hospital and he was very limited in his communication. All he'd say is mommy home, mommy home. And he was about 25 years old. Then we told him you're going home today and he said gas up the chopper from a predator. And he got it right on the script for going home gas up the chopper. And he said just like arnold schwarzenegger. So that was that kid's language. Was movies, life animated. I presented with the guy from that, him and his son, and it was disney characters was the language.
Speaker 2:That's the adapt I I do this too at times. I have I've learned better interviewing skills when I started as a journalist. That really helped me and, um, I think it's pretty good that you know, maybe I always connected to entertainment and to music and things like that, and I think it really did help me communicate. Tony danza has this saying that if you want to teach a kid how to act, you have to teach them how to act, and I think that that's really a good way to say that.
Speaker 2:We learn through so much with especially autistic individuals, through what we see. That's how we learn. That's what we do. I mean, when I go into a room, I'm looking to see how are they picking up the fork and the spoon? Are we going to the salad bar now? Are we doing this Whatever? And I'm watching everybody around me in order to know what to do. And it's just so important that we realize that this is what somebody's language is and this is how they communicate, realize that this is what somebody's language is and this is how they communicate, because all three of my kids are autistic and all three of them speak a different autistic language and it's learning how to reach them yeah, and that you met one person with autism, met one person with autism and that's steven mark shores, and I presented with him in loveland in december.
Speaker 1:And I think that's Stephen Mark Shores and I presented with him in Loveland in December and I think that's one of the most famous sayings other than I'm different, but not less, by Temple Grandin, but it's still true. Today is when he said it about 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:So what are ways that parents can advocate?
Speaker 1:One is to see what the need is, realize what the accommodation is and be a voice for the voiceless and speak up and make sure that they get what they need and not back down. They got to be like a honey badger have perseverance and not give up.
Speaker 2:So we've talked about advocacy, but self-advocacy is one of the best things that I've learned and it took me a really long time. I mean, we have to co-advocate and first do it for our child and then hopefully, eventually you know we're doing it with them, teaching co-advocating together, and then hopefully you get to the point where you can learn to self-advocate. That's one of the most important tools a person with disabilities can learn. So can you give us some practical advice for our listeners on being able to do that?
Speaker 1:So you become an advocate by this. First, you let people know what your diagnosis is. Second, you ask for a reasonable accommodation under Americans with Disabilities Act. First, you let people know what your diagnosis is. Second, you ask for a reasonable accommodation under Americans with Disabilities Act. Then you give them information or a letter stating what you need. Then you give them the reason for it. Then you give them the benefit. This is a benefit. If I get this accommodation, this is going to help you. And then the final one is perseverance and you persevere and you don't back down until you get your accommodation met. It's like the widow who came, the unjust judge. She kept coming at him and the actual Greek is I got to get her need or she'll knock me out. So when we advocate and we become with a platform, people are going to accommodate for us, so we don't eventually wear them out by our coming.
Speaker 2:Have you ever had a negative reaction to you trying to self-advocate?
Speaker 1:Yes, One time a person took it the wrong way, but I made it very clear to him that if I didn't get my accommodation, I'd make sure that people would know that this is going on in a free society. And then I end up getting that accommodation. I end up having to go to the head of this large corporation and I actually got the head of that corporation in charge of 600 other companies and I end up getting their full attention. And sometimes it takes that.
Speaker 1:But what I do is, if I want to get in touch with someone and I know they have the power to do it I always advocate to their executive director and say I'm not the person you want to do this to, because I will get to the top. And when I get there, they're not going to be at the top anymore when they find out that they treat a young adult who has a huge worldwide platform the way they did. And I said, this is not the same world that they grew up in, so they may not realize it. With social media, people think that someone's anti this the Papa John's guy. Someone said the wrong thing. He said the wrong thing the wrong person at the wrong time. Now we don't have him in the commercials anymore, and even though he's a founder. So with social media, if you're a good advocate, you can get change. It's all the size of your platform. Your platform's big enough. People will come to you.
Speaker 2:You talked about when you were running and you were not able to run your senior year because you had, you know, you were held back in kindergarten, or you repeated kindergarten, let's say it that way and then it ended up so you were a little bit too old and this attorney went against the ADA, isn't that? What is it called again?
Speaker 1:The American Disability Act and I ended up winning the case. So I ended up being able to compete by taking on the first major Autism Americans with Disabilities Act in the state of Michigan and we won and then I got full ride to college for that, and then I got full ride to college for that, for track and cross country.
Speaker 2:So what can people do? What are some of the main places they can go if they feel, as an autistic individual or somebody with disabilities, that they feel that they are being discriminated against?
Speaker 1:Where do you think are some of the best places to go? The first thing I do is I look for a local autism organization and then talk to their parents, because I'm sure parents there have already advocated. So when you begin the journey with autism, find someone who's far along in the journey and then, as you meet them, you're going to meet their connections. You meet their connection, you're going to have a community. So it's really a community where resources are found rather than an actual resource.
Speaker 2:Has it been difficult for you, as an autistic dad, to be able to connect with your kids or know how to be there for them?
Speaker 1:Not really, because I only have one daughter I don't think I could have a bunch of kids and she was very understanding. One time I had a meltdown and she saw the meltdown. She said don't worry, Daddy, Sometimes you get a Happy Meal and the toy is missing. Tomorrow, Grandma can get you another Happy Meal and it'll have the toy. She was like three years old at the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is super cute. How? Old is she now and I actually this book.
Speaker 1:I end with that story.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, that's so adorable. I want to ask you just really quick what made you want to memorize 22 books of the Bible. And I mean, what? How much time did that take you to memorize all of those verses and everything?
Speaker 1:So first question is my junior high school God said memorize my word and I'll take you to nations. I started memorizing and memorized 2000 verses that first year. Currently, I spend two hours every day memorizing the Word and since 1994, when I began, I spent over 40,000 hours memorizing the verses and I've never met anyone with more verses memorizing me other than Dr Jack Van Impey, who spoke live to 10 million people. And in 2000 or 1999, 1999, I got to mentor right under Dr Jack Penipe for the whole summer and I was the only person he ever mentored and worked as an intern for his ministry. And then he passed on in 2020. He said that a flag would come but he'd be taken out, and he literally was taken out right before the flag and his body was buried the month when the flag came through the United States, just like he predicted 50 years earlier.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Well, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was one of the best known TV evangelists, dr Jack Van Ip. He only lived 10 minutes from my house, his office was, so it was amazing. He was a person who really inspired me to keep memorizing.
Speaker 2:Well, thankfully that was your passion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was my passion. You would say yeah.
Speaker 2:Why did Honey Badgers become your passion? How did that happen?
Speaker 1:So this happened on my honeymoon. Me and my wife went to Windy City and in a big bill or big department store down town there's a window and there's a honey badger in it. He growled at me. I growled back at his love at first sight, the first one I got in Chicago. You press the poll and every F-bomb in the book comes out. Honey Badger doesn't give up. It has all the four-letter words. So this one is from Amazon. He's decalled. And that's when I bring I don't bring the foul one because I don't want people thinking I'm doing a live demonstration of Meltdown when it says the wrong word Honey badger. Verse of the day. Every day it's a different verse. Today it's Matthew 24, 36. Nobody knows what the day are, not even the angels, nor the son, but only the father. And I elaborate in the verse. In two minutes you can have your coffee. I already have power from God's word. I have a YouTube channel that's on Ron R-O-N S-A-N-D-I-S-O-N Sanderson. I average with my dog. He does better than me about 5,000 views of my dog.
Speaker 2:Well, ron, I really thank you. You have so much knowledge. Is there anything else that you want to leave with the listeners, or a quote or something, or a Bible verse, something that really resonates with you right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so 2 Corinthians 4-7, we have these treasures in jars of clay. So this all-surpassing power is from God, not from us. And the Greek word is duminis, which means dynamite, so we're dynamite people on the spectrum. And then this quote any fool can see an apple on a tree, but it takes vision, dedication to see that orchard in that apple seed. So see the potential in your kid, Plant it, water it. You know what Got to make it grow.
Speaker 2:And I thank you so much, ron Well thanks so much. Thank you for listening to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. We will see you next time.
Speaker 1:World changers aren't pleasing everybody, they're just not.
