Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
SAD (seasonal affective disorder) during the Holiday season
Holidays can be a complex tapestry of emotions, where joy and sorrow often weave together, creating a season that's as challenging as it is beautiful. Picture this: you're working at a Battered Women's Shelter during the holiday rush, finding moments of happiness amid heartbreak. Our episode peels back the layers on these poignant experiences, sharing personal stories that highlight the power of kindness and the bittersweet nature of altering traditions due to illness or loss. We embrace the beauty of making new memories, even when the past holds a tender grip on our hearts.
Ever had a kid turn a classic Christmas song into something hilarious? We kick off with such a story before venturing into the shadows cast by Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD). As the days grow shorter, millions find themselves grappling with winter blues. We bring light—quite literally—into this dialogue, discussing how therapy, staying active, and new traditions can illuminate our mental landscapes. Sharing our own encounters with SAD, we offer insights into how light and connection can brighten the darkest days.
Looking at the holidays through the eyes of children, we explore the disruption of school closures and the challenges they face without their usual support systems. With a personal tale of a child navigating trust issues at school, we underscore the importance of open communication and a nurturing environment. As we anticipate an exciting Christmas trip to New York, we remember those who might need a little extra support, urging our listeners to engage in community outreach. This episode is a heartfelt reminder that together, we can craft a season of compassion and positive impact.
Welcome to.
Speaker 2:Real Talk. I am Tina and I am Anne and we are getting ready for the holiday break and right now there is a lot of joy in the air, but there's also quite a few people who are hurting. When I worked at the Battered Woman Shelter, abuse went up during the holidays and definitely, you know, joy went down. We did as much as we could to help put a smile on the kids' faces or their moms while they were living there in the shelter, but Christmas wasn't home. But for some, however, it was their best Christmas because they weren't home and they were no longer in the hurt. But there are people who don't have happy situations right now. There are people who are alone and maybe for the first time. There are people who might have had a job loss and they can't provide for their family. There are people who are homeless. There are people who have had a huge loss or death or maybe a split within their family. So we need to think of those who are really hurting during this time.
Speaker 1:I read and shared something recently that said someone you know was preparing for their first Christmas without their husband, wife, mother, father, brother, sister, daughter or son. Others are preparing for their last. Regardless of specifics, remember the season of joy is oftentimes a season of sorrow for many. Be kind, be generous, give love, give help. If nothing else, just don't give people a hard time.
Speaker 2:You know what? And it's difficult when we're in the stores and there is a lot of people giving people a hard time right now. So, yeah, just put a smile on your face, because you don't know what people are going through. You know, I can remember when my dad died at Thanksgiving and people tried to have fun and went through the motions of the holidays, but I was just dead inside. I mean, even at 11 years old. It didn't matter what anyone would have given me for Christmas and I got a lot that year, but I just wanted my dad and I just felt that huge hole in my heart. So there's a lot of mixed feelings, and I know that there is for you too during this time of year, tina. It is.
Speaker 1:I just had a conversation with my dad about this very topic this morning. He was saying how he's not sure what to get my mom, who has early onset Alzheimer's. And you know I said I know it looks so different than we had planned. I said, but it's okay if we get her things that she would like in this stage of where life is for her and for us opposed to what we wish we could get her.
Speaker 1:And so it is filled with joy seeing the excitement in the eyes of my children and getting to spend time with family and, of course, eat delicious food. But it is also a hard time, a sad time, to see my mom in her condition and that quote that I shared or I don't know if you call it a quote, I don't know who said it, it was just something that I saw on social media and then reshared, but it it just really hit me. You know, oftentimes I think we we remember maybe more of the firsts, but we don't know when the lasts will be. And so we're in a season of preparing, if you will, because we don't know when it will be my mom's last time, and so I think that's what makes it a little bit challenging for us.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm so sorry that you guys are going through that this year. I thought of you when we had talked about what we were going to be talking about on the podcast and you know I my heart went right to you. So I am really sorry, cause I know what you guys are going through during this. This time it is very mixed, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know my mom loved wrapping gifts like love, love, loved it and always did such a beautiful job. Just, not just wrapping paper but matching ribbons, matching bows, matching gift tags and just the little things. When you actually stop to think about what you miss or maybe what you took for granted and you never even meant to, just all the things like that, she would have been calling me like what do the kids want? I want to go shopping and go overboard and spend exactly to the penny the amount on each of them, you know it just. And baking the cookies together. And she loved to make job pretzels and you know I miss, I miss those things. She always made holidays and birthdays so extra special days and birth days, so extra special.
Speaker 2:Do you think that you could take some pretzels and chocolate and maybe do that with her and maybe give her some wrapping paper and see if she can wrap? You don't know what comes back, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we tried the wrapping paper thing last year and it didn't work. And my guess is, you know things have progressed since then and that wouldn't work either. We're really in a stage that is just hard. You know you look at her and you might not think there's anything going on, but you know seeing her try and be unable is what's really really hard. And you know we're not giving up, though, on the baking thing. I plan to have her over on Friday. I'm trying to get over a hopefully brief sickness over here and hope to have her over on Friday so that maybe we can do some cookies.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh, okay. Yeah, you try to include people as much as you can during the holidays, even when you know it's difficult.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, well, last year baking cookies with mom was quite a challenge. She kept trying to eat them all. That's awesome. She would try to like like lick part of the frosting off some of the cookie things. She would never do, and I'm not making fun, you just have to kind of laugh. Oh right, yeah, I didn't say anything, it was like, okay, she would never do. And I'm not making fun, you just have to kind of laugh. Oh right, yeah, I didn't say anything, it was like, okay, just mental note, those are mom's cookies.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Oh, so funny. You know we tried hard to put a smile on our faces for our kids or for your mom or whomever, when things are not really going well, especially during this time of year. You know we had Denise on when Tina was taking a break and she shared how hard her holidays were growing up with an abusive family and finally finding what a true love of an adult was all about in a shelter. So when I worked in the jail system, the women were there and their kids were home, and many of them did not have men to help. Women were there and their kids were home, and many of them did not have men to help them with their kids while they were incarcerated. Many of the kids relied on Toys for Tots or other organizations and we would take toys from Toys for Tots and load up our cars and give some of the kids whose parents were incarcerated and give them the best Christmas that we could. They just lit up when we would walk in with all these presents. It was so fun.
Speaker 1:I imagine it would be. That's where the joy comes through the pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, I know presents aren't everything. I have a funny story. My seven-year-old was singing to me the other morning and he was just all about mama that morning All I want for Christmas is you. And he was just singing and then I said something that he wasn't very happy about, and then he instantly looked at me and said all I want for Christmas is toys, toys, not you.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, kids do say the darndest things, don't they? How smart to know to change that up so quickly.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's a smart one. All right, he's only seven and, yeah, sometimes he's pretty full of it. So there is actually something called SAD Seasonal Affective Disorder and Optumcom slash. Health says 10 million Americans have winter depression. It is actually a clinical depression that starts in the fall and winter and goes until spring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the average sad episode lasts about five months and comes back year after year with varying intensity, according to that same website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes just the cold and snow, which we have not really been having too much of, but today we have quite a bit of it. Sometimes that can just keep you in the house and more isolated. Whenever I'm not around people, I can instantly feel a mild depression coming over me, and the longer that goes it can become worse over time. It reminds me of COVID, when everybody was isolated and leaving our houses was not an option and interacting with people was just not a thing. Depression was rampant for a couple of years and I honestly think that hasn't officially left everyone since that happened. I think there are still some people that are being affected by that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I absolutely agree and I know the isolation to be a true factor in speeding up my mom's early onset Alzheimer's and we're kind of seeing the opposite to also be true. So we have a caretaker there for her every day of the week for several hours, and I do one of the week for several hours and I do one of the days. Her being around people has really helped over the past few months. So that's something to keep in mind, that really being around people. We are built for connection it really does mean something. Now I would say I am self-diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder. I have worked really really hard over the past two years in particular to overcome it. I only like two years ago was able to put this name to it. So now that I've realized it, I do know that the weather contributes lack of sunshine and light for me being cooped up inside, not around people, as much things like that. It's all very, very true. When it gets dark so early, that really messes with me too. So several years ago I guess it would be right around those two maybe this is more. Like three years ago I've been realizing but my parents got me a light therapy lamp. It was something that I had asked for for Christmas and I have now made it a bucket list for the winter to go outside and even start new traditions. I use that light therapy lamp. I would say it helps a bit. It's not a cure-all, but it does help a bit. And it kind of helps just tell your body like, oh, it's still light out or, oh, wake up. And helps you kind of wake up and just feel just a notch above, just a little happier, because light just does that. For me at least. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been really cool and I've even made myself go and play in the snow. See, I don't like to be cold, me either, not at all. I've made myself.
Speaker 1:You know, like my kids today have said, since there's snow outside when we get home from school, can we play out in it? And I was like, yes, you know, I was so excited because I knew that I've got so many hours before that comes. And now that the time is creeping up for when they will be home, I'm thinking, oh, what did I get myself into? It's a hospital with trying to get over the crud. But here's what I will say with complete certainty it does help. There are still periods of time that sad gets me. But the bucket list and forcing myself to go out and do things kind of like the opposite of what I want to do helps break that cycle. So if you're wondering, well, how do I know if I have SAD, I can tell you that some of the symptoms are low energy, sadness, loss of interest in some of your favorite activities Again like a depression, only it's seasonally, it's weather dependent, changes in appetite, some different sleep patterns, fuzzy thinking, poor concentration, feelings of worthlessness or guilt, thoughts of death or suicide.
Speaker 2:I know someone who had SAD and I would say it had to do with the lack of sunshine and light like you were just talking about, and they talk about that in this article. Shorter days means less sunlight. This actually affects circadian rhythm, your body's internal clock that's tied to sleeping and waking. According to Optumcom, they say it affects your hormones, as the chemical messengers tell your body what to do and when. Melatonin is one of those hormones. But in the wintertime that hormone is still releasing melatonin during the morning, when you're supposed to be waking up. I found that interesting.
Speaker 1:I did too. I had to read that a couple of times and I understand, I guess, now what it's saying. I guess that's why we're so much more tired in the morning, because our bodies think, well, maybe we're supposed to be sleeping. And for me, it hits me more in the evening. It's kind of like once it's dark outside, my body's ready at yam to go to sleep and it's like wait, you still have several more hours. And I'm like but I don't want to. You know, I want to go to bed, right right, we've been going to bed earlier.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that the kids even are like I'm tired, I want to go to bed, and that never happens.
Speaker 1:So that doesn't happen much over here. My, my middle, my middle son is the one who has no problem ever going to bed, never, ever, ever, ever fights, and it's the other two. Yeah Well, the article that we've been referring to on Optumcom also talks about. Because of less sunlight, your body can produce less serotonin, which is that feel good brain chemical and helps regulate mood, and women are two to four times as likely to experience sad as men. So it can begin to hit you between the ages of 20 and 30 years old, but even some kids can have it, and of course, it appears to be dependent on where you live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:The further north you are, the more you can experience seasonal affective disorder.
Speaker 2:I guess that is why so many people move to Florida, if they can, or just south at least. The article says that only 1% of Floridians get winter depression and 10% of New Hampshire residents get it, so I mean that's a huge difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does matter where you live. So if you or someone you know begins to have symptoms the same time every year, like clockwork, you might want to consider looking into seasonal affective disorder.
Speaker 2:So what can you do, I mean, when your body is telling you to just sit and not leave your house? Maybe make yourself go for a walk, like Tina was just talking about, going out and making snow angels or doing whatever in the snow. Meet a friend for coffee, doing those things that can give you that jumpstart that you need.
Speaker 1:Exactly Do the opposite of what you feel like doing to get out of that funk. If you keep going in this circle chasing the same result, you're going to get the same result. But if you kind of break that cycle and do something a little different, you might just be able to change that thought pattern. It is important to change those thought patterns. You got to resist the urge to hibernate, so maybe you want to get together on FaceTime or Zoom if you really don't want to be around the crowds, or there's sickness or something like that. Whatever you decide to do, just do something to break the cycle of doom and gloom. That's what I tell myself.
Speaker 2:Sad can be treated. So you can talk to your doctor about this, talk to a mental health professional. There are therapies just like the bright light therapy that Tina was just talking about, which I had never really heard of, so that's really interesting. It gives you the right amount of light that you need for your hormones to reverse course, so that's really great. The article also says that 67% of patients with mild SAD and 40% with more severe felt improvements with bright light therapy.
Speaker 1:I tell you I can attest to that. I do love my light therapy lamp and, like I said, it kind of takes it just kind of takes the edge off or puts your happiness up a notch. That's kind of how I describe it. It's kind of like you turn that light on and your mood just goes up because it's just bright and it's just happy. That's really the best way I can explain it. And if you've tried the light therapy lamp or you've tried some other things and you still don't feel like you're where you want to be, there is also medication that can help you during situational depressions and I would encourage you to talk with your doctor, much like I have. And while we're being transparent and real, I do take anxiety medication. It is new to me. I started it in October and I can tell you, and my family will tell you with 100% certainty I feel so much better.
Speaker 2:That is great, tina. I'm really glad that you decided to do that. I mean, you were really saying it was for me. Yeah, I remember even on the podcast us talking that you weren't ready for something like that. But you know, everybody has to get to where they're ready to be able to do something and maybe they find alternative ways to handle their anxiety or depression. But I mean, this is what you've come to during this time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It took physical symptoms and literally I had several brain MRIs because of the symptoms that I was having and they came back clean. And so when that happened, it was like okay, we ruled out all of the other things, the road is leading to anxiety. And so when that happened, it was like okay, we ruled out all of the other things, the road is leading to anxiety. And so I knew then it was time to do something, because I couldn't do it on my own. It was time for medication. I had tried so many other things and for a period of time they did work. And then they just stopped working, and I don't know if it's because there was more stress and anxiety. I don't know if it was because it just wore off after time I don't exactly know or a combination of the two.
Speaker 1:Regardless, I found something that works really well for my body, my genetic makeup, if you will. I don't know exactly what is all entailed with it, but I am having some really great success with the medication that I'm taking, and it's a senior dose, if you will. They call it just the lowest dose. Well, you know what? I guess I shouldn't say. I think there's one dose lower than what I'm taking, but it's a very small dose, but it makes a big, big difference.
Speaker 2:Well, that's amazing. That's really great that you did what you needed to.
Speaker 1:So I'm yeah, you get to a point where at least I did. I wasn't ready, but my husband wasn't pushing me, my doctor wasn't pushing me, my close friends weren't pushing me, they were just. You know, if you think you need it, great, and if you don't, great. And so it was just so nice to just okay. You know, we're going to just sit with you right where you are and accept where you are, and if you are ever ready for it, great. You know, they would just encourage me that. You know, maybe you would feel a little better if you tried something and you only have to stay on it long.
Speaker 1:And the breaking point for me was twofold. It was knowing that I couldn't do this on my own. When my doctor said this isn't your fault, this is not something you can will your way out of. Okay, that really resonated with me. And the physical symptoms I could no longer live with. And so I met my threshold. I exceeded my threshold and that's when I decided I have to try this. I have to, and I'm so glad I did.
Speaker 2:There is cognitive behavioral therapy, cbt, where you learn how your thoughts affect your feelings and actions. For example, the article states how negative thoughts can relate to negative moods, which can lead to negative behaviors, or vice versa. I know for a fact that this works because I never did CBT, but I have actually been treating myself with this, I think, all this time. I mean I do CPT whenever there's something going on with me. The more that you think about it, the more you feel it and then your actions fall into play. I mean I lie to myself that fake it until you make it saying from AA, or I talk myself into liking something or doing something, until I am doing it on my own without having to think about it.
Speaker 1:It takes a lot of energy to change those thought patterns, and I know that to be true also. But I can tell you, boy, when it's successful for me, it's so worth it and it will be for you too.
Speaker 2:Please do not go through this alone, whether it's the winter months or because of a situation going on during the holidays or any other time of the year. Please talk with someone, find someone you can share, because if you can just take this first step, you will instantly feel a relief and begin to feel better. I know that that's true. If you feel like you want to end your life, please contact the Suicide Hotline at 988. That's all you have to do is call 988 and someone on the other end will pick up and meet you where you are.
Speaker 1:That's the whole point. I think it's so important to just meet people and love them right where they are. I know that's what resonates so well for me not to be pushy and just meet them where they are and let them feel the care we're here for you. Also at Real Talk, you can contact us on our website, realtalkwithtinaandanncom. You can write us a message, send us a voicemail, by hitting the mic on the bottom right and we will respond. You can always message us on Real Talk with Tina and Ann on Facebook as well.
Speaker 2:Now you had a quote for us, tina.
Speaker 1:Yes, there are a couple of the short quotes and I don't have any authors, I've kind of just compiled these over reading various things. But the first is self-care is not selfish, it's necessary for good mental health.
Speaker 2:I can't say that enough. Absolutely, absolutely. You have another one, yes.
Speaker 1:The second one that resonated with me for this podcast is small steps can lead to big progress in mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can remember times in my life where it was literally just taking the smallest step and I mean it kept me going forward. I have this thing in my head that as long as I'm moving forward, I'm okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, progress is still progress. It can be imperfect, but it is still progress, right? Well, the last one, that might even be the biggest, most encouraging one that I'd like you to take away, is you are capable of overcoming your mental health challenges. You are capable, and I really like this one because, for so many of us, our trauma or things that have happened in our life isn't our fault, and so that part really does stink, but it is our responsibility to do something about it to make it better for us, for our family, you know, to break the cycle, to help us fully live. And so you are capable of overcoming your mental health challenges really, really resonates with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I know you and I both have gone through very difficult times and I still picture you out on that ledge in Hawaii where you had to overcome and it was very difficult and sometimes we find ourselves right on the edge of that ledge in life. But we just have to keep taking that step and moving forward and we can overcome. I know I have, I know you have, in some of our toughest situations. So, and if you are having a difficult time, you can contact us, like we said, and maybe we can help direct you in the right way. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:And if you're a teacher, or anybody that is, has kids in your classroom that are hurting and you know that, maybe you can make a difference. Maybe when they come back from holiday break, ask them how things were, ask them if they need anything when they're going on break it's the same thing and maybe just touch base with them. You know my son right now is having a really hard time and he cannot go to school and we have done everything we can to get him into school Now. He has a great home but we've had teachers and the resource officer and just recently the head of student services was here to try to talk to him and we finally got him to school. They're kind of using ice cream right now as a way to get him to school.
Speaker 2:But you know, he just had a really bad experience at school and he's autistic and he made an association with the teacher and right now he doesn't trust the teacher. So I mean, can you see how critical it is for us to have our kids trust the people that they're working with? You know, I mean, if you they've said that my son and I know a lot of kids are built like this and adults it's about connection and if the person in front of us, you know, if we don't trust them, then we're not going to perform for them, we're not going to do what we have to do for them. So you know, uh, I think we going to be able to get on the other side of this, but it's just so critical, especially during the winter months, for us to kind of touch base with these kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, oh gosh, I just I can't imagine and I don't know how you undo that.
Speaker 1:And that's what I love about the school systems where we live is that I feel like there are so many people who are so kind and caring and trained and somehow learn how to do things that I'm just kind of like I don't know what to do about it. You know, I don't know how to fix the problem. I have a three-year-old son who I wasn't planning to send to preschool next year, but my husband said you know, we probably should because he talks a lot but his enunciation and clarity is maybe 25%. I don't know how to fix that. So I think we're going to send them. And actually today I reached out to the school and said, hey, I'm really not ready, but I think he needs this, and so we're already scheduling for a month from now he'll have his evaluation and we'll get the ball rolling and I just it's amazing what they're able to do and I'm so grateful that we have people in place who are experts in areas of helping kids with all the different challenges that they face, with all the different challenges that they face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they are experts and sometimes we just have to be careful. And also, you know, it's okay to call your teacher out when you feel that they haven't done something professional with your child, even though they are professionals. So there's nothing wrong with doing that either. And I just had a talk with his teacher, or the people that are over her, actually, and said you know, even though she feels that she didn't do anything wrong, and he does feel like she did, all she needs to do is get down on his level and say I know you feel like I hurt you and I'm sorry. Now, you know that takes care of so much. Just those little words. And I guarantee that if she did that, that she would get more out of him.
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully that suggestion is heard and taken and you see some changes.
Speaker 2:But he's excited for Christmas as we're going to New York and doing some different things. But I'll tell you, you know there are a lot of hurting kids out there that they lose their lifelines. The rug is pulled out from under them when they can't go to school. So just remember that that maybe we could reach out and help some kids that might be hurting during this time Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening. This is Real Talk with Tina and Anne and hopefully you have wonderful holiday season with your friends and family.
