Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Navigating Invisible Differences: Empowering Parents and Children on Unique Journeys with Kari Baker part 2
Kari Baker joins us for a heartfelt conversation that reveals the hidden layers of parenting children with invisible neurological differences. From wrestling with the emotional intricacies of isolation and uncertainties to navigating the special education system, we promise you'll walk away with practical tools and a refreshed perspective. Kari's insights are not just theoretical; they're born from experience, making her guidance on IEP meetings and parental rights invaluable. Together, we explore how nurturing passions can illuminate new paths for children, forging fulfilling life journeys.
Parenting is a journey with both challenges and joys, especially when guiding children through social hurdles. With stories that resonate deeply, we explore teaching self-advocacy to empower children in difficult moments. From handling tantrums with a strategic "poker face" to navigating the minefield of peer interactions and bullying, we find that communication is the key. Kari's poignant narratives remind us of the courage and perseverance required, ensuring that our children not only survive but thrive in their unique environments.
Embracing the journey of parenting a child with autism, we reflect on the evolution of community support and the significance of finding purpose amid challenges. We discuss the pride in children's growth, the beauty of autism, and the power of unique pathways. Kari shares touching stories that highlight the positive impacts children with special needs can have on the world and emphasizes the importance of focusing on their strengths. This episode is a testament to the resilience and love that defines families navigating similar paths, offering encouragement and a sense of shared journey to all who listen.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. This is part two of Carrie Baker's interview. She is an author, speaker, advocate for people with invisible neurological disabilities. She has founded Kind Families, a community of people who love individuals with neurological differences. She has written the book Finding Kind Discovering Hope and Purpose While Loving Kids with Invisible Neurological Differences.
Speaker 1:In part two we talk about the kind community, the shame and isolation that can come from not fitting in as a child or adult with invisible differences or as someone parenting someone with those types of differences. We mentioned the beautiful verse John 9, 13. Carrie mentions how we were born on purpose, for a purpose. We talk about the special education system and how parents can be prepared, going into IEP and other educational meetings surrounded by educators. We explain your rights and help you to understand that you are the one in control of your child. We talk about the whys, the anger with God and the fears that can come with a diagnosis. This is a must here for anyone who knows someone who has an invisible difference, or if you have one yourself difference, or if you have one yourself, like Anne does. She talks about this as well. Thank you so much for listening. And here is part two.
Speaker 2:We have been trying. For instance, right now, my son is in a hybrid homeschool situation, so he's off school Mondays and Fridays, and we had to do that, you know, unfortunately, because of a bullying issue that happened at his prior school and so we're. You know we were kind of thinking, okay, he's in eighth grade, let's take a take a year to do this kind of low stress option, but he's bored, so we're, we're like how do we, how do we take up his time on Mondays and Fridays?
Speaker 2:And we found a school that has these individual classes that are one-on-one teacher taught, not online, where you can go in, and they have things like theater, art and cinema, and so my Brady now is a huge movie buff. Like you go to a movie with this kid and you will hear details that he saw in that movie that you would never imagine in your life. And then journalism.
Speaker 2:He picked out journalism because we've been watching the TV show Smallville with Clark Kent and of course the reporters are in there, and so we're trying all of these different avenues where you know we know movies is his number one thing, but there's all these little offshoots that he could really take a grasp on, that utilize his gifts of writing and creativity and performance art and those kinds of things. So I think that's amazing. And the drummer is the most important, by the way. So I'm on the worship team at my church as a backup vocalist and the drummer is the most important. So I'm on the worship team at my church as a backup vocalist and the drummer is the most important. So you can tell your son that.
Speaker 1:Well, he absolutely will eat that up. Yes, because he's all about being the number one and wanting to feel important.
Speaker 1:So I'm just really proud of him and you know, I just want to quickly say that you know we had mentioned about me having neurological differences and I was told that I would not graduate high school and I got a master's degree because I taught myself how to learn by reading into a tape recorder and listening to it, writing it down and then memorizing it, and it would take me hours to do what maybe somebody could do in an hour for me to get barely a C. But you know, I figured it out and that's, you know, people with autism. I think that we are also giving this big tool belt of all kinds of other things the resiliency and the determination and that's what I see in your son in this book. It's just a beautiful story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's very brave, I think, you know he's extremely courageous and he tries new things and has found some that he doesn't like as much and some that he does.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, I think as somebody that was kind of raised like you go get a business degree and because that's like the smart thing to do, cause you can do a lot of things with it and that sort of thing, and I don't regret that at all, I don't regret my first 30 years in the career.
Speaker 2:But I do talk about the fact that you know, the places where I shined in my former career were when I was giving, you know, educational sessions to the employees, or it wasn't in, believe me, I was not the person like making somebody a million dollars in the stock market or anything like that, so it was, it was in the one-on-one that I would have with employees, or giving presentations or writing materials to help them understand things better.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, it is kind of interesting to think now that I've just done this complete 180 and loving it so much and feeling like I'm right where I need to be, and I just want Brady to start that way. You know, I don't want him to go 30 years of, you know, processing widgets or whatever, doing spreadsheets, when that's not his math and science or not his thing. And so we've just got to find those creative outlets and a way for him to really build a life around doing those, because if he's doing that, he's going to feel good about himself, he's going to be successful, and it's not about money or anything else, but he's going to feel fulfilled.
Speaker 1:That's where we want him to be so yeah, you know, I read that story about him swimming in that was it a lake or whatever it was? And and then the dead, the fish bones, and he's swimming and I'm just like I was feeling it. I mean I just was, my skin was crawling even thinking about him doing that On the spectrum. Are you kidding? I mean that was you want to talk about determination? I mean, in every story with him it seemed like at first it was a little difficult and it was kind of like, you know, you weren't really sure if he was going to get to the other side of it, but he found it within himself to get to the other side of it, even the first time he got in the pool, you know, when he just kept going. So I don't know, you know, and I saw him continually make goals for himself in the book and him reaching for them, and that was just so amazing.
Speaker 2:Right, right, it's interesting. So right now, he's never been a sports kid really. He's always loved to swim and he did cross country and track at his old school because it was a small school and any kid could participate and those are individual sports. But he's never been into like basketball or football or anything like that.
Speaker 2:And he's told us now, I think that he's in eighth grade that kids go out on the basketball court and they and he's horrible. He will be the first. I'm not, you know, divulging anything that he wouldn't allow me to divulge.
Speaker 2:He's horrible at basketball and football, but he wants to learn it, and he goes Mom, I don't want to be awesome at it, I just want to be middle of the pack, I don't want to be awful anymore. And so there's actually a group here that focuses. That focuses on special needs fitness, and, starting in a couple weeks, we've got a trainer that's going to come twice a week and just give him like just give him, like you know, these uh lessons on.
Speaker 2:You know, throw a ball and get it to where you want it to go, and dribble a ball without losing control of it and um, and have that work all in with his physical therapy as well and building core and things like that. But you know, if he's going to express interest in it, we're going to try to figure out a way to help him See.
Speaker 1:I just love that, and we do that with ours too. One of the things that you say is I get so caught in.
Speaker 1:Well, actually you wrote this in a kerrybakercom blog, your blog yes, so I was reading those as well and you said that you get so caught up in the have-tos that I overlook the get-tos of parenting your child and that God carefully and thoughtfully created to be yours.
Speaker 1:And I somewhat will relate with that, in that we have so many appointments, there are so many things that we have to do and when I was reading through your book, you know all the meetings, the school meetings, the doctor's appointments, the pills that we on our end have to take everywhere we go to make sure we have everything, all the fidgets, the bag full of all the kids' things, and we have to make sure so much so that they are okay that we oftentimes don't get to enjoy it. And I kind of laughed because I had this visual of you with the DVD player in the car as you were taking the kids to the cavern field trip. I think it was. But I do that now. I mean I've got my hand on the wheel, the DVD player back there is not working or something happens and I'm like this trying to figure it out for them. So, yeah, I totally get it, I relate, yeah yes, it's juggling.
Speaker 2:I mean, I just watching you do that motion of like reaching back, like I was doing with the, it's like, okay, I can do this, I can drive and keep us all safe and I can change a dvd right behind my head and, and we've got to give ourselves permission to pull over, it's like, oh, my goodness, I think it is.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of ingrained in us as parents that we try to get as much done as possible, but you know, we've we've got to stop missing the cool things that that come along with parenting a kid like this. And um, and and that's true for all parents too I think we all get caught up in the hustle and bustle whether it's kids are in sports or in therapies, you know and kind of miss out on the relationship building piece of it, and I'm guilty of that too. So it's um, it's always good to like take a step back and just enjoy. I went to a concert with Brady yesterday and I just kind of looked over at him and he just had this smile on his face the whole time listening to it and so I found myself kind of just looking at him almost more than the stage, and there was a lot going on on the stage.
Speaker 1:Oh, I do that too. Yeah, my kids, I do that too, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I call it my third childhood because I had, you know, mine, of course, and then my older two, who I adopted years ago, and now I have these three littles. So I call it my third childhood because I just love living through them. It's just so fun, because I just love living through them. It's just so fun.
Speaker 1:There was something else. You know, gosh, there was so much in your book that I resonated with. But the other day I asked my daughter to clean her room, which turned into a full out, yelling, screaming, you know, and it got to this where I'm telling her well, you can't do this if you don't get this done, which everything I was doing or saying was escalating the situation. And you talk about poker face and say attention was a reward for good behavior, not a response to bad behavior. And I have this picture of you in my head with your son in one part of your house and you in the other, and you wanting so badly to get to him and you knew that you couldn't get go to him because he needed to figure it out and calm down. You know, I do ignore her behaviors at times, and anything that I say or do just escalates that behavior. So it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, we just had that happen, actually two nights ago, with something where he kind of lost it and went in his room and shut the door and he was sitting up against his door and of course I'm pushing on the door going come on, brady, it's time for dinner, you know. And he's like I just need to be alone, mom, I just need to be alone. And I kind of went. Okay, I know, I know that my pushing on the door that's not going to get us anywhere and that's one of the hardest things to do.
Speaker 2:And I remember a therapist telling us that and I remember a therapist telling us that you know, you've got to be willing to not go to that event or to, you know, miss out. Then I guess we can't go to the movie, but that's okay, we'll go again another day and do it with the poker face without any emotion or screaming or, you know, gritting our teeth, which is super hard. But you know that really put the ball back in his court to make the decision. He wasn't responding to me and it was a new concept for me that my negative attention was even something that he was trying to draw out in me, like he was taking something from my negative attention and that wasn't helping us in the end goal for anything. So once I removed that, it's kind of like a tug of war Once I drop my end of the rope he doesn't have anything to tug on anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that he can let you know what he wants, like when he told you that he wanted his chicken nuggets room temperature or something like that. You know. I think that that's so amazing because I constantly. I think that that's one of the biggest things is communication and teaching our kids how to self advocate.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, and you know we've we've been focusing on that a lot and now he has. He has language that had to develop and what the story of him you know telling me that his chicken nuggets were burning hot to him, even though they seemed like they were room temperature to me. That was after, you know, years of of speech therapy and all the things that he needed to be able to communicate that across. Of course, now he's a teenager and he throws that back at me. You know he didn't want to participate in a school show and he's like mom, I'm self-advocating by saying I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, oh, wow. But you know we're fortunate that he has the language and that he has, you know, the comfort level, especially with us and people that he's close to, to do that. You know, unfortunately, the same way, that the social stuff is hard with the peers, just on a regular even keel level. I think that you know that shows itself in the bullying situation with our kids as well, though. So he's gotten really good at self-advocating with us, but if he's in a situation with a peer who is not being kind and he doesn't really realize that, then that is still a real struggle for him.
Speaker 2:At his old school there was a boy who decided it was funny to start saying that things that were weird were autistic Like, oh, that's so autistic and I'm making up a song on the playground about autism. And and I wound up. You know I spoke to the administration. They swore up and down they would get it fixed and it still continued to happen. So I pulled him out, which was very traumatic for him, and we were talking about it one day and he goes Mom, I don't think he was talking, I don't think he was making fun of me.
Speaker 2:I said Brady, you're the only kid in the class that the whole class knows has autism and he wasn't catching that. You know this was a direct attack on you and he actually had a friend step up for him and defend him. But you know, so that self-advocacy I think he's in kind of the early stages of that where he's able to start sticking up for himself with us as parents and investing those boundaries with us as parents and advocating with teachers for things that he needs. But that peer-to-peer self-advocacy is something that is a lot harder to come by Self-advocacy is something that is a lot harder to come by.
Speaker 1:I have my one daughter. She self-advocates about everybody and everything and she tells everybody what they should be doing or you know, or what she wants, all day long. But then I have one that, unfortunately, because his disabilities are so great that he gets teased and he actually says to me but they're my friend and so because they're just talking to him, so it's trying to get him to understand no, sweetie, they're not treating you very well right now, but that's difficult too, because he wants somebody to really like him. And he does go to a different school now too, and he has some friends, so he's very excited about that. And, yeah, I mean, it's just so important.
Speaker 1:I feel I mean gosh, bullies, it breaks my heart. I can remember one time where my one son he was playing basketball and he was so little and he was trying so hard and these bigger kids came out and they were just making, so they were just teasing him so badly and of course I went in and advocated and I'm just like stop it. But he was younger but not saying something and trying to step back and trying to give them the tools to be able to do that by themselves. Oh, that's hard. That's hard as a horse.
Speaker 2:It is. It was hard for me not to approach the kid at his old school and have some words with him. But you know those experiences, though as hard as they are, and what we've told Brady is that you know, now you understand, you know if somebody is making fun of autism, of something that's a core of who you are it's not all of who you are, but it is a part of you then they're not your friend. You then they're not your friend. And they are not just saying something in general that just happens to relate to something about you. They are attacking you.
Speaker 2:And you know it goes back to when he was in, I think, his second grade. There was a boy who was physically bullying him and we practiced at home. We'll call the kid Jimmy, but we would practice at home and I would touch Brady's arm or grab his arm, and he would have to yell stop it Jimmy. And I was like that's not loud enough, brady, if I grab your arm, you know. And so we would practice that Stop it Jimmy, Stop it Jimmy. Until he was able to yell. Stop it Jimmy, stop it Jimmy. Until he was able to yell, stop it Jimmy. And you know, the cool thing is. Brady and Jimmy wound up being friends a couple years later and Jimmy that school handled it so great.
Speaker 2:They got the boys together and they made friends. And that kid actually talked about feeling bad about the fact that he was picking up. Brady later in life. But the physical stuff is almost easier to address than some of these undermining kind of behind the scenes mental things that people do, especially once they hit middle school, which is just a tough time for everybody.
Speaker 1:But we're working on that you know, two of the things that you really talk about is your son's inability to connect with other kids and how bad that he or I don't like the word bad how differently he has acted in public.
Speaker 1:Sometimes that makes you just want to explain to everyone in the room, and I've gone into situations like that too with my kids, where I just want them to have a shirt that says I have autism. Please be kind, you know, because lots of times I can sense everybody's staring and I just want everybody to understand. You know, hey, and I have gone in and apologized before and said I am sorry, you know he has autism and we're still learning. So but the connection, especially with one of my kids he is always on the outside while the other kids are playing and it's trying to teach him how to join and that fight or flight, I mean it's a real thing. And because he gets so overstimulated just because of that alone, he goes into either a run or he goes into flailing, you know. And so now it was so difficult for to keep him in the classroom and he's gifted, so that was difficult, so we decided to homeschool him. He's home now.
Speaker 2:And those you know. We've figured out that the schooling decision is something you almost have to make every year because the needs are changing and his challenges are changing. You know, from an academic standpoint, he can do all the work. He's a smart kid and he can do all the work, but can he listen to a teacher who's just talking at him for an hour and take a note? Take notes that are going to help him remember stuff for a test? Maybe not, you know. And so you know, the homeschooling thing that we're doing now that's a hybrid is great in some ways, in that he's able to self-study and he's able to get through it just fine. But thank goodness, because, as an eighth grade, the eighth grade material is starting to get to the point where mom's not as much help as she used to be in elementary school.
Speaker 2:But he wants to be challenged, he wants to have, you know, that teacher relationship and he wants to have, he wants more. And so you know, I think the schooling thing is going to be just a, and every year we need to look at it. We're doing that right now for ninth grade, because he's high school last year, and what's going to be the best environment for him socially and academically? So, and you know, I guess we've we've proven with our track record of the different schools that he's been in, that we're willing to make a change if it's not the right fit.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so it's all about change. Speaking of autism and people not liking change yes, yeah, yeah, that kind of goes. I mean, I just expect change every single day, so I have learned to just go with change. Now, one of the things is that you talked about with your husband which was really amazing when you found out that, or you were thinking that he might have autism. Your husband said OK, so what do we do now? I mean, what a great response to that. So what would you say to parents who are hearing the word autism or whatever it is, whatever invisible disability it is?
Speaker 2:what would you say to them when they're hearing it for the first time? Well, first of all, denial is not going to help at all and I've seen friends that have denied it or said, oh, they'll just grow out of it type of thing and put off getting their children the types of interventions that would really help them later in life, and that breaks my heart. So please, if you've even got an inkling that there might be some kind of an invisible difference, you know, get it confirmed and get some help for your child, the sooner the better. Secondly, I do know that our family is a little bit unique and that my husband did just accept it and we were in lockstep on the fact that we were going to work as hard as we could to get Brady all the services that he needed. And I have other friends whose husbands have not been as understanding, and in that case I think you have to just keep moving forward. You can't put off the kinds of help that your child could really benefit from and hopefully get some counseling or some other folks to talk to your spouse about what needs to be done to make sure that your child has the best possible life. But you know, those are kind of more, you know, getting into action mode.
Speaker 2:But the other thing I would say is, you know, find community. You are not alone. There are other families that are going through something very similar and maybe just may be a little bit further down the path than you are. And when I found those moms, that was life-changing for me to be able to sit down and have coffee with a few people whose kids, like you said, they're not the same Every kid is different but there are some similarities in a lot of the behaviors and the passions and the interests and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And there are stories that will help you feel like your child is not some anomaly that came along. Your child is just born with a brain wiring that's different. And then, lastly, don't ever, don't, ever like somebody told your family and like don't ever discount what your child can do based on a diagnosis or even a suspected diagnosis we had. We walked into our first parent training when Brady was three and our heads were still spinning from all the autism research we'd been doing, and she told us to cash out his college fund and, to you know, start thinking about building a casita on the back of our house for him to live with us forever, and just she'd set this expectation up, that he was never going to be able to do anything except go to therapies and, you know, live in our garage, oh boy.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And that I mean it is. It's almost criminal to have those kinds of comments. Yeah, I've said that. You know it makes me so upset to see teacher, educators or medical people think that they are God and know for sure that this is the path for your child, right?
Speaker 2:And so I, you know, your, your child is the same child as somebody very wise told me this a while back. He is exactly the same kid the day before the diagnosis as the day after the diagnosis.
Speaker 2:So, nothing has changed. What has changed is that now you have a roadmap. That diagnosis is just a roadmap to help you understand how best to help your child cope with a world that was not designed for him or her and to be able to thrive in it. And so you know. There's so many of those lessons that it took me a long time to learn, but it's so much better now, I think, than 10 years ago when Brady was diagnosed. I really wasn't on.
Speaker 2:Facebook, and you know I hadn't ever listened to a podcast. There wasn't this kind of just global encouragement, and there wasn't there, quite frankly, there wasn't the demographics of the kids out there that have this. So you know, when I felt like I was the only person I knew with a kid with autism which was the case initially, I mean, now you can't. If you go into a classroom, it's likely that one of the kids in there is going to have autism or one of these other invisible neurological differences that fall under this kind of kind umbrella, whether it's dyslexia or ADHD or OCD or sensory processing like almost one in five kids has something that kind of falls under this kind umbrella. So it's not that you're not alone. You're actually part of a huge community of families that are out there who are looking for the same kind of hope and encouragement that you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you have formed this community and that you wanted to go outside and help all these other people Some of the challenges that you know.
Speaker 1:You have a whole chapter on shame and I think that having the community really helps families realize that they're not the only one Right, and that because a couple of the things that you touched on have really has really hit me in that you know, one of the hardest things for me is to secretly see neurotypical kids playing and families being able to go out and they do not have the difficulties that we do, and also that it's also hard to watch other kids soar to great. But then I always remind myself but he's got it, he's going to be okay, he's got the skills he's growing every single day. But those things enter in and there are moments of sadness when you see that or that kids are growing towards independence and reality. I know that especially one of mine might not ever be completely independent and you know those add moments of you don't want to talk about it, you don't want to put it out there and you know I appreciated that chapter on shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it wasn't shame in our kids. It wasn't my shame of Brady at all.
Speaker 1:No, not at all.
Speaker 2:I have always kind of been a people pleaser. I've been a, you know, I've got to go out and achieve, I've got to walk into a room and figure out what the need is and go meet it. And having a kid, that was very different, it was very isolating. Right right, you know, I was, like you were saying, watching the other families with the kids. You know I would in kindergarten, preschool, kindergarten and first grade. I always felt like the other moms were looking at me because Brady had an aide in the class and saying, well, what did you know? What's wrong with him? What is you know? What did she do wrong? What is you know?
Speaker 2:And I, I isolated myself from relationships in those groups because I didn't feel like I fit in. I was not. I did not have the, you know, quote unquote typical kid that was doing the sports. We weren't going to basketball practices, we were going to speech therapy, you know, and it was. It was this unexpected. What I consider to be a failure in my life plan, you know, and I had to. I had a lot, of, a lot of stuff I had to deal with and some of it was I mean, I'm not going to lie, there were some people out there who were not kind. There were some parents in Brady's classroom who were not kind.
Speaker 2:And so there were things feeding that fear and that shame too. Um too. But I remember taking Brady to that special school first. When we took him out of that preschool and kindergarten that he was in, and all the parents at the pickup line were saying, oh, what therapy are you going to this afternoon? Or what medication is your kid on? And I was like what, what we can talk about this.
Speaker 2:And it was just this huge weight that was lifted off my shoulders and so it's now. I mean, I'm so proud of what Brady can do, and you know Brady can do, and you know, is there a little part of me that you know I see kids that are, you know, in the playoffs for their basketball team or, you know, traveling. I'm glad he doesn't play soccer. I've never liked soccer, so that was that one I'm very grateful for. He never got into soccer. But you know going to tournaments and things like that. So do I have these little inklings every now and then? Yeah, I still do. But I would much rather have a kid who's published, got his foreword in front of a book, and you know, we were at church yesterday and there was a mom that came up to me that I didn't know and she introduced herself because Brady's been helping out in the little kids area and her son, who is on the spectrum, and he just gravitated to Brady and he just walked up and held his hand and said mommy, can we go outside and play?
Speaker 2:And Brady took him out into the playground and they played together. And that's the kid I want, and that's the kid I'm proud of, and those other things. That's their path, those other things that those kids are doing that's their family's path. It's not ours.
Speaker 1:and they can rewrite their story along the way many different times, but I really do feel that everybody has a purpose and there is a reason that my kids your son has autism and I have autism and it's used. One of the things that I loved in your book was John 9, 13,. Rabbi who sinned this man or his parents, that he was born blind? And Jesus says neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. I think so many of us feel that we did something wrong, but you say in your book God made him that way on purpose, for a purpose. That is so beautiful and God doesn't make mistakes, period. I love your poem to Brady, by the way, and you said you are God's work of art and I thought that that was so powerful. Yes, and I thought that that was so powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and he is he's. You know the. The tagline that Brady's used in the foreword that he we use kind of when he's he's relating is you're fearfully and wonderfully made. We are all fearfully and wonderfully made, and and even if I mean I am not saying that all kind kids need to go off and ride a forward or swim two miles in a lake or anything like that- but they're going to run into people whose lives.
Speaker 2:they realizes what their purpose is here on this earth, and if there's one, kind of common thread that I've noticed with most kind kids is that they are kind and they make positive impacts on people.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, yeah, we were at a fair and my son, who has the most challenges, was on a ride and there was a man who was having a very difficult time getting out of his ride and my son went right over to him, grabbed his hands and helped him, walked all the way with him till he was off of the ride. Oh my gosh, you know I mean, those things are more important to me than him getting an A in math.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and you know, I read somewhere, you know our kids with autism and you might experience this. They might have communication problems with another kid, but that doesn't mean that they are not super perceptive about other things that we can't see.
Speaker 1:I always say we can see a tear before it falls. Yeah, I know that kind of thing. Yeah, because so many times they really just say that we're not empathetic. But I don't believe that. You know, we do get stuck in our ways and we, you know, might, but for the most part we do genuinely care deeply about other people and want relationship.
Speaker 1:Yes, one of the other things that you touched on when you were talking about schools earlier I wanted to mention this was that you know, special education has its own language and when you have several educational professionals in front of you talking test scores and goals, it can be so confusing if you don't understand the language and you don't realize that you need to learn what all that means and you need to go in knowing what your child needs, and with a fight, because if you want your child to become their best self, you have to understand what all the lingo is and also realize that you have a say at the table. You don't agree and you can go in with advocates to help you get what your child deserves. And I also like how you liken it to owning a business that you know nothing about and these teachers and doctors are your employees, and that is true, but it also it's so empowering because you are in control of your child, not them.
Speaker 2:Right and you know your child best. You know exactly how they react to criticism. One of the cool things that I think is coming out of that school conversation now is, when you're in an IEP meeting, don't just talk about all the things that your kid is challenged by, Also talk about all their strengths so that they can start to play to those strengths. So Brady has, you know, rejection. Sensitive dysphoria is one of the diagnoses that we got, where if somebody comes in really hard and critical of him, he will melt, and so there has to be a better approach of somebody in that authority figure. If Brady's doing something that needs to be corrected, it cannot be Brady. You're not doing that right. That will not create the result that they're looking for. There has to be Brady. You did this really well, this part. Let's see if we could do that a little bit better. And so there's all kinds of advancements that I think that are out there that parents can lean on to school district, created an entire school within the public school system.
Speaker 1:It's a separate school for kids that fall in the gap class, and every classroom only has like six kids and they meet every child where they are. I mean, can you imagine going in meeting every child right where they are? You know so, but it can be so hard to find the exact place for our kiddos to go to school and be their best self.
Speaker 2:That is. That's one of the other really exciting things, and I'm in the Phoenix greater Phoenix area, I'm in Scottsdale and there is actually one of Brady's therapists that he went to. They created a school just like what you're talking about for kids kindergarten through third grade and they're now expanding that to some later grades where they have those smaller classrooms. They're getting them included in other activities with typical kids in the mainstream classroom, but there's behavioral techs that know how to guide the kids in the moment to really get the most out of their day at school, and I think there's a lot of really neat, exciting things that people are starting to pick up on and also because of people like you who have had this successful career path and they know that our kids have things to contribute.
Speaker 2:Our kids are going to be able to contribute awesome things to the world and the community and organizations and we've got to figure out a better way to help them be able to do that.
Speaker 1:You know, I love how you say in the book that our feelings don't drive results. Our actions do. And as a parent of special needs kids, you know all we and you say, all we need is a willingness to take the next step forward. We need to get up the next morning, read the next article, go to the next appointment and talk to the next person. And if we keep finding the next thing to do, even if it's a mistake you know it's an experience. Even if it's a mistake, you know it's an experience. And having kids that have special needs and you know it's an active type of parenting we have to be on the front line. If I allowed my feelings to dictate what we do, there would be days that I would just sit in bed and not do anything, you know. So it's that getting up and doing it again the next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of the definition of courage, right. So that's, you know, getting up and doing the hard thing, and I think that every kind parent, that's what you are going to be empowered with because of the love you have for your child and your desire for them to have the best possible outcome, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you also mentioned about anger and being angry with God, and I have had my moments with tears asking why. And you know, having a life where there's, at times, continual frustration or hardship, with little breaks, can definitely cause moments of questioning and being angry. And the other part of it is fear. Fear is huge. I mean being afraid of the unknown, afraid of what even our day could be like, and you know there was a line in your book which is actually the mantra on our podcast, so I found that interesting. You say that pain has a purpose and we always say that there is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey. So I believe in using our pain for good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And if you can let yourself see the purpose in the pain, it's going to change your life too, and the purpose is kind of the foundation that we all need to have in going forward. We've got to have our lenses dialed into. This is my purpose, this is my kid's purpose, and try to just take a step every day towards that. And try to just take a step every day towards that.
Speaker 1:Well, if we do what you say in the book and to, you know, not have the invisible cloak but put on the armor of God, so where no one can diminish our worth, which I found so profound, I actually I'm such a visual person and so I really appreciate all your visuals, like that. It was like, oh yeah, you know, you know, but I'm the armor of God, I'm picturing like I have Thor's hammer and I've got, you know, like all the Avenger stuff on, and so I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my autism coming out, because I'm a big Marvel person, dc person.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah Great, my son is too. You guys could probably go on and on about that.
Speaker 1:So as I mentioned, I have a room just for that, and everything has to be exactly where it's supposed to be, and I know when it's not. Yes, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Well, you and. Brady would get along great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure that we would. I knew it even when I read his book, and I also was a swimmer, by the way oh cool, I swim. Yeah, you asked a question at the end of your book If you had the power to snap your fingers and make it so that you never walk through your valley, never experienced the loss of a job, a relationship, never got that diagnosis or never had to parent a special needs child, would you? I instantly, I didn't even have to think it was no, I mean instantly, how about you?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely not. I mean, I can't imagine, especially with now, with kind families and taking this turn, even career-wise. I know that I'm on the path that I'm supposed to be on personally.
Speaker 2:I know that Brady is inspiring people and I wouldn't want him. I don't know. I I, of course I love my kid. We're all biased about our kids, right, but I, I even see some of the you know things going on with my neurotypical friends, kids, and I'd rather have mine. I'd rather have mine.
Speaker 2:That still is, you know, coming up with creative things and still lets me tuck him in bed at night. He'd be mad if he knew that I would let him let that slip. But you know, and and has faith and isn't caught up in, you know, the teenager. Let me figure out who I'm going to be, and so I'm going to be somebody different every other week. I mean, brady knows exactly who he is and he can't fake being something that he's not, and so, and all the people that have come into our lives, I just I cannot imagine him being any other different, any different than he is today.
Speaker 2:And he asked me I actually blogged about this too one time if he would have autism in heaven. And that was a tough one and I had to think about it a little bit, but I said, yeah, you know, I don't think you're going to have the hard things about autism. I don't think you're going to struggle with communicating with your peers or, you know, staying organized or all of these other things. They're not going to struggle with communicating with your peers or you know, staying organized or all of these other things. They're not going to mean anything anymore. But you are who you are, with autism included, and I don't think heaven would be as good if you didn't have autism, because then you wouldn't have all of those wonderful qualities that autism brings.
Speaker 1:You have all of those wonderful qualities that autism brings you, and so it's true. So many people with autism really bring very beautiful things to this world, and I think that we would have a very different world if we didn't have autistic individuals. So could you talk more about finding kind families in your podcast a little bit, and how people can get ahold of you?
Speaker 2:Sure, so easiest way is kindfamiliescom, which is the Kind Families website. The Kind Families podcast is on Apple and Spotify and we release episodes every other Tuesday. So we're about to wrap up the first season of Kind Families podcast and we'll start into the new season in a few weeks. And then Finding Kind. You can actually access through the Kind Families website and it is available as an ebook on Amazon as well. We'll be hopefully releasing a paperback and audiobook later, but right now, hardback is available through my website and ebook on Amazon.
Speaker 1:So when they come to your website and they want to join the community, what should people expect?
Speaker 2:So the community right now is getting some blogs, some of the stories that I'm writing on a regular basis and updates on some of the podcast guests that I have coming. You can certainly reach out. There is a way to reach out to me directly and I respond to everything personally. So if somebody has a personal question that they want to ask or access to resources and that sort of thing, the Kind Families website does have a resource page questionnaire that I filled out online. There's an organization called the Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center here in Phoenix and that was their questionnaire that they now use in screenings and preschools and all over the place and it's a real quick and easy thing to just kind of say you know, is this a possibility for my child and also a similar one for ADHD? So there's tools and resources. There's an opportunity to access me, access the podcast and order the book as well.
Speaker 1:I think it's so amazing that you have done this with your time and you walked away from a 30-year career to do this for other people and take your story with your son and help other people. You know, I want to end with these beautiful words that you've said. Sometimes you have to take your eyes off the elephant in the room and concentrate on the blessings around it, and that really, again, as a visual person, you know. Know, I want to thank you for saying that, because so many times we can miss the beauty in the room because we are so focused on the one thing or what we consider to be a problem and we can miss all the beauty around it. And my kids and your brady are, you know, they're the most beautiful children and they were made on purpose, for a purpose, like you said, and I see them all the time making a difference in others' lives and I wouldn't have it any other way. So thank you so much, carrie, for being here today and you know you've made a difference here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much and I've loved our conversation, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for our listeners, we will see you next time. Thank you for listening. Go to Carrie Baker's website if you want more information. You can also take the online quiz that she talked about. That is used across the country to determine if you or your child might have autism. There are many helps and resources. You do not have to do this journey alone. If you want more information from Ann, you can go to RealTalkTinaAnncom. You can visit our website, leave a message on the mic on the lower right-hand side and we will respond. You can also go to our Facebook page, realtalkwithtinaanncom.
Speaker 1:Having autism and any invisible difference is nothing to be ashamed of. There is not a stigma attached to it. There doesn't need to be. It is a beautiful thing to have autism and other invisible differences. I have lived with it all of my life and I'm proud of who I am. Three of my kids have invisible differences and I am so proud of them. Remember also that every person with autism is just one person with autism. We are all people first. Autism does not define us. It is just a piece of who we are. Get to know that whole person behind that word. Don't let definitions define you and do not let anything limit what you can do. You can do whatever it is you want to do. Go for the top. Be your best self in every aspect of your life. You might have to work a little harder, but God has given you the tools. Keep adding to that tool belt. You got this.
Speaker 1:I'm going to leave you with a few quotes from Autism Parenting Magazine. Autism is not a puzzle nor a disease. Autism is a challenge, but certainly not a devastating one. I want to talk about this for a second. Carrie and I touched on this. Getting that diagnosis can be scary, but it only comes with challenges, and challenges are meant to be overcome. I'm not saying at all that autism is curable. I'm simply stating that with the diagnosis comes that resilient spirit and tool belt to help us grow through life. Everyone has something I always say and honestly, this diagnosis can lead to beautiful things. I know firsthand it is not at all devastating. I have overcome so much, and so have my kids. It is scary because of the unknown, but if you surround yourself with people who can help you do this, it really does make a difference and we can be a part of your support.
Speaker 1:I think this is one of my favorite quotes I have heard about autism. So-called mild autism doesn't mean one experiences autism mildly. It means you experience their autism mildly. You may not know how hard they've worked to get where they are. This is so profound. All I have to say about this is, yes, I have had so many people say to me but you don't look autistic or you don't act it. Many of us work so hard to mask, make our disabilities invisible, because we want to fit in, and to do that takes an incredible amount of strength and courage. I am standing with each and every one of you who fights this fight and, lastly, other families might be on chapter 11. Well, we're still on Chapter 8. That's okay, though, because even if we get stuck on a chapter for a while, we're still moving forward, and that quote was from Autism Odysseys. We thank each and every one of you at Real Talk with Tina and Anne. Thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time.
