Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
The Escape: Victoria Ellen's Courageous fight against abuse and systematic failures. Part 2
Victoria Ellen's extraordinary journey from terror to triumph is the heart of this episode. Eight months pregnant and seeking refuge from an abusive marriage, Victoria's tale is a powerful testament to courage and resilience. Supported by her father, she reflects on the fear of the unknown and the importance of having a support system during such critical times. Her story unfolds with raw honesty, highlighting the bravery required to escape and the inadequacies of legal protections like civil orders in truly safeguarding victims.
We also shine a spotlight on the systemic failures within child abuse investigations through the experiences of a determined mother and her children. Despite valid claims, the justice system's inertia and manipulation tactics employed by an abusive father left them vulnerable. Our conversation uncovers the frustrating gaps within the justice process that leave families feeling powerless, while also highlighting the relentless pursuit of justice by those who refuse to be silenced. The narrative serves as a call for urgent reform, underscoring the critical need for a more effective and empathetic response from authorities.
As Victoria and other voices share their paths to healing, the episode becomes a beacon of hope, demonstrating the transformative power of resilience. We explore the profound impact of personal stories, from overcoming skin cancer to finding love and grace in unexpected places. Symbols like the number 17 and the sighting of a bald eagle become emblems of victory and hope, illustrating the spirit of empowerment in the face of adversity. These stories collectively emphasize that sharing and supporting one another can inspire change and foster strength in those who listen.
Welcome back to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. This is part two of our interview with the extraordinary Victoria Ellen. In part one, victoria courageously shared her story of escaping a severely abusive environment and the relentless effort it took to get authorities to take action. Use of environment and the relentless effort it took to get authorities to take action. Her journey is nothing short of heroic, as she not only fought for her own safety, but also for justice on a larger scale, one that even caught the attention of the federal government.
Speaker 1:Victoria's story is a powerful testament to the strength and resilience of survivors. She's become a voice for children and adults who have been victims of abuse and for those wronged by manipulative con artists. Her bravery is inspiring and her advocacy is a reminder that no one has to face these battles alone. If you or someone you know is in a domestic abuse situation, please know help is available, make a plan, gather important documents and reach out to trusted individuals or local shelters for support. Abuse often escalates when someone tries to leave, so it's critical to have a safe place to go. Victoria's book Painting in the Rain a true story of trickery and triumph is a compelling read you won't want to put down. We left off last time with the beginning of her story. Now let's pick up, as she shares how she was able to escape her then-husband and start a new chapter in her life. Here's part two of Victoria Ellen's powerful journey. So how did you finally leave him?
Speaker 2:So interesting. We got into another altercation and I just happened to be far enough away from him this one day when we were fighting that I was able to get out the front door. Our son was there, who was literally like just shy of a three-year-old. So I felt like, okay, he's two and a half Like if I bolt out the front door, daryl's not going to come after me because he's not going to leave our son in the house by himself. You know what I mean. So that didn't work because when he realized that I had taken off out the front door, he took off out the front door after me and left our son in the house.
Speaker 2:And it's a November day broad daylight in suburban, you know neighborhood in Ohio, and here I go running down the street and I'm eight months pregnant and here comes him, you know, right running behind me and I'm just like running for my life. I was literally like in my head I'm thinking I am never going back, I am never going back, I am never going back. Whatever I need to do to get Ryland, I will do it, but I'm never going back to a life that I have to live with him you know, right Now your dad got involved, didn't?
Speaker 2:he pick you up. He did. He picked me up at the police station. I called him, so when?
Speaker 1:he said the words everything is going to be all right, I mean I felt the release for you. I mean it must have been like you probably. I mean there's your dad just reassuring you. That must have felt wonderful.
Speaker 2:It was. It was great and you know, I was still a little bit of disbelief because they did not know what I had been enduring and it was like, I think in his mind it was like, yeah, everything's going to be all right because now she's left him and everything's going to be fine. But they had no idea what I had lived through for the past three years.
Speaker 1:He knew that something was wrong. I mean, he went to that retreat and he was, I think, fearful for you, whether he really knew or not, and he had a peace at that retreat because you know he was reassured that you were going to be okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And that was really interesting too, because someone there actually said to him when he was away, just trying to like clear his head you know everything's going to be fine with your daughter and oh, by the way, she's going to come home and she's going to have more than one child, and it was like how would you even know that?
Speaker 1:And you don't even know what the situation looks like you don't even know what the situation looks like.
Speaker 2:Being able to have somebody just speak into your life and be like, hey, this is what I'm seeing, you know, and I think everything's going to be okay for you. I mean definitely amazing how, behind the scenes like there was always a plan and it was going to be fulfilled I just took like this detour no-transcript. Scary, and I know a lot of other women experience the same exact thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's why I loved it so much, because I thought of all the women in that shelter, all the women that I've encountered that had to leave such a scary situation and had to jump and had no idea where they were going to land. Some of the most scariest places is the unknown.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, because at least it's like where you're at, at least you know what to expect. But you have to get to a point where you kind of understand, like it can't be worse than where I'm at right now, like, okay, yeah, my mind, I was trying to rationalize it and I thought, well, my God, like I don't have a place to live, but I've got friends, yeah, I don't have an option anymore. Like the option to stay has been removed off the table. You're going to have to jump. You got to figure it out now because his life is worth it. And this baby, you know her life is worth it.
Speaker 1:Right. You filed a CPO against him, a civil protection order. Did you feel safe with that order?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely not. It's interesting. You know you take all of the steps that you know to take in order to keep yourself safe, but never I never felt safe from him Ever.
Speaker 1:I feel safe now, but not at that time and in your book you paint this picture of you're pregnant. You need to go back and get your things and the garage door.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me? I couldn't. It was like this war with the garage door. It was so funny. Once I finally got a hold of that garage door and I was able to push it up, we found like an old headboard that was like in the garage and I pushed the garage door up. My friend procks the garage door open. Daryl's inside the house and he's pushing the button for the garage door to try to make it go down, which obviously like breaks the motor for the garage door because he's just pushing it to make it go down. I've got something blocking it. All I wanted to do was go in the house and get my things.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to get my baby's things and my son's things, that's it, and some of my clothes. That's it, because when his friends came from the police department, they wouldn't let me take my things with me, so yeah, and then when you finally do, you know you're in and the police.
Speaker 1:he's like well, her things aren't even here. And then he looks in a bag and I think it was, it was girl stuff, for sure and he's like are these yours?
Speaker 2:That was awesome. It was awesome. Like yeah, it's your underclothes. Like like hello, do you wear women's underclothes? Like no, you don't. So okay, let's just keep it moving, buddy yeah.
Speaker 1:So you took your things you do get your things and you go back to your new place at this time and you're just like scattered all of your belongings on the floor from trash bags and you remember thinking you've made it and in a way you did. But there was a long way to go. And this next chapter of your life was even scarier as the abuse of the children unfolded and everywhere you turned the authorities, nobody would help you.
Speaker 2:Not one person. Not one person helped me. It is unbelievable. I've actually and I disclose this in the book I met with a prosecuting attorney in a local county and she read my book and she just said you know, this is tragic because in my case I literally had everything that was needed to lock people up for the crimes that they had committed against my children that were just so heinous, oh my gosh, because it was like all these different counties and because you're dealing with corrupt people that are in power literally could not move the needle, could not move the needle. So it was just day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. No joke for three.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, no joke right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I couldn't get anybody to help me. And even when people did, I thought were helping me like investigators would come and investigate the children and then the children would disclose that they had been abused and sexually molested and raped and all of these horrible things, and they would tell the authorities what had happened, they would cite it and then no charges were ever brought. It's just, it's absurd. It is a an atrocity, in my opinion. I think that it is maddening.
Speaker 2:I can't believe that this is where we were at in the justice system, but nonetheless, that's where we were, and I just want to make sure that our listeners understand my son and daughter and they had come back from their last visit with abuse. I did not ever send them back. Once I knew, like once she came home and he came home both of them with visual signs of sexual abuse. They never went back. Prior to that it was like oh, so-and-so did such and such and I thought, well, if I got a court order that said that Rylind and Sadie couldn't be around certain people, I felt like that was going to keep them safe. I had no idea that my children were being abused by their very own father. No idea.
Speaker 1:Right, there was. I had a visual in my head when I was reading all of that and it was like this you know streets just in all directions with all these dead ends at the end of them, and you were just going from police to judges, to CSB, to you know everybody, and every single time it literally was a dead end. And talk about playing God. And talk about playing God, I mean, it just seemed that each of these players felt that they were almost like a God over your life and they treated you all horribly and I can't believe that, even when a child and you know he did your son ended up saying quite a bit eventually, what he was saying wasn't even taken as truth.
Speaker 2:It wasn't. It's wild to me. I can understand being very cautious and wanting to make sure that you don't falsely imprison someone you know what I mean or send someone with false allegations to prison over something that they did not do. I understand all of that. But my son had substantiated investigation with Children's Services, and so did my doc, and they named my ex-husband, their biological father, as their perpetrator and no one would do anything to help us. And I I mean, I don't know what a person's supposed to do. You've gone to literally every single source. You've gone to counselors, you've gone to police, you've gone to judges, you've gone to guardian ad litems, you've gone to I mean, children's services, literally every single thing. And Daryl was so convincing, ann, that he had all of those people believing that he was the one that was the victim.
Speaker 1:And that's how a narcissist is.
Speaker 2:They are always the victim. Everybody's done them wrong and, in his own words, everybody did me dirty, you know, and really flip it the other way. He's doing everyone else wrong, but who was so convincing and such a professional con artist that he had all of these people eating out of his hands?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had an investigator on the case that had only been there about 18 months, you say, and some of the things that were done I was just because, you know, I've adopted my kids. They had been abused and I know the system quite a bit actually. And they interviewed Daryl's family in a group. I mean, I had never even heard of that before. They didn't even talk to you and they didn't even talk to Rylan and some of the things like okay, the investigator said that he felt that there was no sign of sexual abuse because the abuser denied it. Because the abuser denied it, I'll tell you what I have never met an abuser that says, yep, I did it.
Speaker 2:It's absurd. It's absolutely absurd. There is a process that you are supposed to follow as an investigator when there are claims of abuse, and he literally didn't do any of them. He put the entire family and every single person that had been accused of any type of abuse in their living room and asked them point blank did you abuse these children? These are the nicest people ever. They would never do something like that. They said no and he closed his case and moved on Like literally absurd. I mean, did not do his job in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1:I can't even imagine that. Like I said, nobody's going to admit it and your son even named who was doing things to him still nothing. But they show up at your or your mom's house when there was a bruise, unexpectedly, they just show up, you know. So I mean there was such a difference in the way you were handled and the way he was handled all the way through this. They even had a case not open at all because the caseworker forgot to open it, so it went uninvestigated for a really long time. And you kind of touched on this earlier. How counties? Because there were things going on in different counties and they weren't talking to each other.
Speaker 2:No, that's. I think that's probably one of the biggest downfalls in the case, because I couldn't get everybody in every county to get on the same page, like we couldn't put all the pieces of this puzzle together on one table and be like see here, see here, see here. And to your point earlier about Daryl trying to claim that there was a bruise on Ryland that I had put on him, there was such a mudslinging contest going on and it just looked like every single time I would say something, he would combat it. Yeah for sure Against me in order to try to cover up the truth. So it's like you can't win at this battle. And he was never tiring, it was like the Energizer bunny. I just thought like how much longer are we going to have to do this?
Speaker 1:You know, your son had a hard time talking to some of the authorities and so they discredited him. And I was just thinking that what little kid is going to be able to really say those things anyway? And just because he wasn't really able to give his address and things like that, when you've been traumatized and you're a little kid, and even when you're an adult, sometimes you're not able to say some of the basic things. But he was screaming in so many different ways with his behavior and everything else, and he did actually say it with his mouth. They should have listened to him, even if he couldn't say some of those basic things.
Speaker 2:Agreed, I don't think a child can articulate abuse. Anyway, I mean the way that my children described the sex abuse was just.
Speaker 2:I mean, you have to understand intercourse, you have to understand sex and what happens during sex in order to be able to even understand what a three-year-old is telling you about what someone's doing to them. I mean, they would have had to have seen it, experienced it, watched it. Something had to have happened and the fact that he was completely discredited the entire time. It's just. There's a lot in there of emotion, because it's still hard for me to even like think about it, because I'm like we were done so unjustly. Where was the justice? Where is the justice for my children?
Speaker 1:You know Exactly, oh my gosh. You know, yeah, and that wicked witch Judge. I mean you kept getting her and I just was like what is happening? I mean she treated you so different than she treated Daryl and she even rolled her eyes at you and laughed, but allowed him to talk and interrupted you and even nodded her head in agreement with him. I mean I just couldn't believe all the things that were happening with the judge.
Speaker 2:It's wild that these people are in power. I mean, what are we to do when this is what we are letting run our society?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and she was another one that discounted your son. Yeah, yeah, and she was another one that discounted your son and, yeah, I can't believe how she took him back to talk to him. I mean, you say that he didn't. She didn't even hold his hand and basically you were saying that there was nothing warm about this interaction between the two of them. And if you're going to talk to a child about something that's happened to them, my kids were hurt by somebody and we actually have a center in our county where they take them back. It's a play area. There's a glass where they don't even know that all these police and everything are watching behind this glass and it's very private. Nobody knows even where this is, unless your child has been abused in some way, and they have to go talk to authorities and they have a counselor in there playing with them and doing all these things and getting it out with them in a very natural way, and they don't even really know what's happening. So I just couldn't believe that that's how they did it.
Speaker 2:I couldn't either. I still can't. It still is mind-boggling, and that's why when you said in the beginning like this really is like made for a movie, Because it is so unbelievable you can't even make sense it exposes a lot of this it does, and I think that's one of the reasons why they were fighting me so hard was because they didn't want me to expose their uh, corruption.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, it's so funny because I just finished and I'll just tease this out because I think it's appropriate right here and but I just finished filming for a documentary and it's on a very, very, very big, big, big streaming platform. And it's funny because they didn't. They wanted to silence me, they wanted to silence me. They wanted to silence me. They wanted my, my children, to just be quiet and let the abuse continue and just let another generation of people just continue to, um, you know, be uh, silenced and and abused. That's all I can say.
Speaker 2:And so I I have refused to let that happen. And it's interesting now because, fast forward I mean, writing a book about my life was so wild I never thought in a million years I would be able to do this. But now, writing this book and having this platform that I'm using my pain for purpose to help other people, it's like you thought you were going to silence me. And it's funny because now I have a much larger voice and a much bigger platform than I probably ever would have if you would have just left me alone. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, things all work out for a reason. But it's wild when you think about like full circle moment. You know.
Speaker 1:I mean even the hospital and there were physical exams and there was evidence and I mean you had all the things. I just don't know where all this proof was going. It was just like poof, and where was it going that these people weren't? And there was even a part where it was substantiated and it was marked substantiated, but it was still ignored. And there were letters written by let me see daycare workers or something, and even that was ignored.
Speaker 2:That's correct Everything was ignored.
Speaker 1:But they did pay attention to the child support because that was black and white. I mean, that was the only thing that I could think of as why they paid attention to that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, that's fast forward, like 13 years from the time the case kind of ended.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so quick backstory.
Speaker 2:He was after the children were disclosing that he was indeed the perpetrator and that one of the perpetrators and that we did have substantiated reports from children's services.
Speaker 2:He went dark for almost a decade and then when he resurfaced, we were in court and the judge same judge was trying to reestablish parenting time, and now the kids are much older. You know, a whole decade has passed and we were really just trying to figure out where we were going to go and because, honestly, like we couldn't afford to keep going with the attorney fees. We had a case that went to the Ohio Supreme Court and one of the reasons why I did the child support thing was my husband, who is an incredible human being, really MVP in this whole entire story. But he convinced me to be my own attorney and said you know, we can't afford to hire another attorney, so maybe you can still get pressure on Daryl by using child support, which you're the only person that has access to his financials. So that was kind of the reason why we used that strategy and indeed that was what ended up being helping to be one of the linchpins, you know, in this case.
Speaker 1:Well, while that was, I mean we'll get to all of that, but he was living large, to all of that, but he was living large, large, when you were struggling with all of these things.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. He was living in a nearly million-dollar home in a beautiful golf club community and driving a Mercedes S550, like the highest know that Mercedes even makes Driving a Dodge Viper. He was traveling all over the world, going to Sierra Leone and, you know, going to Miami and like going to private fights and had VIP passes to meet with, like you know, this very important boxer and he was with Floyd Mayweather Just names VIP people going to games, like football games and sitting front row and getting box seats, and going to Disneyland and taking his family there and just literally living his best life. And I'm over here struggling and my husband's working a second job and we're pulling every single dime out of savings to try to afford to pay for our attorneys. It was wild. We were in litigation this time on those seven years.
Speaker 1:Your entire life, it seemed, was with courts and handling things with him. It was just so time-consuming for you. And another thing if you weren't going to uphold your end with the visitations and things like that, with what you knew enough that you really believed that he was abusing them, you were going to go to jail.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I was sentenced to jail and I appealed it like three different times Same judge. She sentenced me to jail because the children refused to go with Daryl and exercise visits with their perpetrator that she ordered them to do.
Speaker 1:You know, I thought that they're at least in Ohio. I don't know. I mean, isn't there an age limit when you can say that you don't want to go see your parent?
Speaker 2:No, ma'am 18.
Speaker 1:No 18?
Speaker 2:Okay, that's not okay that you don't have a say that's right, we need bill reform here. I mean for sure you know my children both had to end up aging out. So if you haven't read the book I'll just kind of give a little quick insight to our reader or to our listeners. But basically in the book I explain that the court ordered visits. My son is three years older than my daughter, so by the time he hit 18, he went to college. My daughter still had three more years to go until she was 18. So she had to continue up for the visits. She didn't want to leave with Daryl for the visits and then they sentenced me to jail because the kids refused to leave. I mean she's 15, 16, 17 years old. I mean I just can't believe that Birthday, literally in a freaking McDonald's with Daryl's wife, who Daryl didn't even show up on her 16th birthday, he sent his wife again. You know, to visit.
Speaker 2:It's just unbelievable that they have no voice, they have no say, and it's documented that he is their perpetrator. So why they would want to force them to do visits is absurd and it's just disgusting. I don't know what else to say.
Speaker 1:And that's so scary. As a parent, you know, I was reading, for one thing, when you wrote like wife number two, I went what Wife number two, I went what Wife number two? And then you had to deliver, which she left too. But you had to deliver your kids to a person and you didn't even know where they lived. And when you you went on this hunt for the house and you went for an envelope that you had gotten from wife number two, I think for Easter or something, and then you ended up like going on this hunt and looking from address to address and you found a million dollar house, 9,000 square feet, and I think it was, or something like that, and but there was nobody. I mean there was no furniture. And then you got to his parents' house and there was nothing. I think. I mean it was unbelievable, I mean that would be so scary that you don't even know where your kids are.
Speaker 2:Oh no, and that's flashing back. So that was when they were little, little like, oh okay, three and six years old. That was when he was married to wife number two in the first million dollar house that he was living in, with no job. Yeah, and it was wild. So it's like I finally was able to track him down and it's like you don't even have furniture in this house, you know. And then found this house and there was no furniture there and I'm like, do these people even live here? Like what is going on? I mean, it just seemed so incredibly bizarre and no one was listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your daughter also had signs of abuse as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, she did. Unfortunately, she was ordered to do overnight visits with Daryl when she turned three years old from this horrible judge, and at that time I still thought that it was other people in Daryl's family that had been abusing the kids, and so we had one of his family members named in our divorce decree that was not to have any alone time, unsupervised time, with our children, and that person ended up fast forward. He's actually serving time in prison for gross sexual imposition of a minor and rape. This is the same person who also abused my kids. So, anyway, I was thinking that WIKE number two was going to protect my kids and that nothing was going to happen to them. But, to your point, and yes, my daughter did come home, was returned to me from a visit with visual signs of sexual abuse, as was my son. That was their last visit, and I did not know, though, at the time, that he had already separated from wife number two, and so the children didn't have any supervision other than him and his family.
Speaker 1:That's so scary. You know, when your kids were naming people and they were saying that they weren't allowed to tell. I mean, everything was there but nothing, and they accused you of coaching them and someone actually said to you that there's not enough evidence. Send them back to Daryl's and get more proof.
Speaker 2:I mean that was an investigator, by the way, with the local sheriff's department. Yeah, that's what she told me, and so I just said it's never going to happen. I mean that was the turning point for me when I thought, ok, well, if I have to shave my head, move to a new country, create an alias, make up a new life, like whatever I'm going to do, but they will never, ever go back to his lair ever again. They will not, and they didn't. They didn't from that time forward. So I mean there was a lot in between there, but you're exactly right, no one listened. I mean there was a lot in between there.
Speaker 1:but you're exactly right. No one listened yeah that to me.
Speaker 2:when somebody says go back, let your kids be abused a little more so we can get more proof. Yeah, no, we're done. You've got enough evidence. You've got enough proof.
Speaker 1:And at this time I mean your kids are in PTSD. I mean, what did PTSD look like in your son?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, he was five years old and attempting suicide, right? So I mean, I don't think it gets any worse than that, ian, it doesn't?
Speaker 1:no, it doesn't. No, I mean, I just think that that's absolutely horrible that they've had to have a life of these memories.
Speaker 2:I agree, and it's. It's unfortunate because the system totally, um you know, failed us in every single way.
Speaker 1:Shaping for him you know, there was something that I it really hit me that he felt helpless, not being able to help his sister. You know, and I think that sometimes that that can be worse. You know, when you see a sibling or somebody close to you being abused and you can't do anything to help them.
Speaker 2:I agree with you. That leaves an indelible mark on us as humans, because we innately want to take care of each other. We want to help each other and he couldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was even told not to cry too, as a really young one.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:By your husband or your ex, and when he was hitting him, he would tell him you know no tears.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's how he works. I mean you're not allowed to have emotion, You're not allowed to have feelings. He completely desensitizes you.
Speaker 1:I love that you got Rylan into so many things. You know drums, sports and when he was going through some of those PTSD things which I thought was really important for our listeners you know drums, sports and when he was going through some of those PTSD things which I thought was really important for our listeners to know is that you did things like at bath time and at bedtime and things like that to help his mind. I thought that was so great.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I just knew that I didn't like the prognosis, I didn't like the life sentence that I felt like he was given from all of the medical professionals because of his trauma and abuse, and I just felt like I needed to be his biggest cheerleader, and so I just started employing every single modality I could to try to help him heal and get on a path to recovery. Because we're all here, we're living a life. You might as well live a life well-lived, in freedom and in the fullness that you're supposed to have, not being miserable and suffering your entire life. And if he wouldn't have gotten those opportunities, he would still be suffering even more than he still does. I mean, we all still suffer, you know, from the aftermath of it, but we're much better than we used to be.
Speaker 1:You call child abuse the secret crime. I thought that that was really profound and the actual child protection system muffled your child's cries. I just was so angry at the system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it evokes a type of anger and disdain for the system when you really understand what they did to these children.
Speaker 1:One of the things that you did that I love, that helped you to some degree, was you actually took notes, and it's so important to people that are going through something similar to have that notebook, you know that journal, of being able to say this is when we showed up, this is when you know he showed up, or this is what happened, or whatever. I mean, it's really important to document all of that and have it in writing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I encourage people to continue doing that. You know doing it on your phone. I know people are fans of that. Now, yeah, I know this type of thing. It can just be deleted from the cloud and then you don't have any record of it. So document if you can, even if it's an abbreviated version in some type of a journal or diary.
Speaker 1:Now your friend Meredith said something that I think resonates with a lot of people, where they start blaming themselves for not being able to help you. And so do you have any message to people like your friends around you who were blaming themselves, or to other people that were just if they see somebody being abused and they feel like it's their fault that they weren't getting out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. My only message to friends of people who are being abused is don't give up on them and continue to be a strong support system because they feel so alone. And it's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not meant to save the world. So don't internalize that. It's not your fault. You know to save the world, you know. So don't internalize that. But do try to support your friend or your family member and do try to find resources and constantly sneak them information as you can, and sow those seeds and then water, water, water, water, so that eventually that person can get to a place where they feel like they can, you know, jump.
Speaker 1:Now Daryl. We talked about how he cared about looking all the time to the outside world, but he started getting into trouble. So what happened?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he had been gone. He had stopped coming to visitations and stopped any type of communication in 2007. So we had slowly put the pieces of our life back together. But I always had people that were kind of keeping an eye on him and what was happening. And he happened to be on the Dayton Daily News in an article where they had investigated him for fraud. He ended up being found guilty in 2000 and I think 13 or 14. It took several years to get that prosecuted, tried, whatever, and he had three felonies at that time for fraud. And he was stealing from people and posing as an investment broker who was going to take their money, invest it in his gold mine in Africa and, you know, give them a 20 percent return on their investment. And he literally, just basically stole their money.
Speaker 1:And even then he ended up pretty much getting off.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, so he should have received, or the maximum sentence that he could have received was the six and a half years in the federal penitentiary for the crimes that he was found guilty of, and he got zero time in prison and a few years of non-reporting probation.
Speaker 1:Unbelievable. Now, going back to you for a minute, you say that even the warrior gets weary and you are tired of fighting, and you said that you could have gotten mad at God and turned your back on him. You said that you could have fallen into substance abuse to turned your back on Him. You said that you could have fallen into substance abuse to numb. You could have become the bitter, vindictive ex, but you instead sought guidance from God and from counselors, and I thought that that said so much about who you were.
Speaker 2:Thank you, ann. That means a lot. I did. You know we can choose. My mom always said you can choose to get better or to be bitter. And I just I didn't want to use the energy that I had for any more bitterness or pain, because we had already had so much of that.
Speaker 2:I wanted to heal and I wanted to live and I wanted to have a full life and I wanted my kids to have that full life, and so that's why I just chose like the high road, and I just felt like he's going to get his. I mean, you reap what you sow eventually, and so I mean it might have been longer than others, but I always say trust the process, trust the process.
Speaker 1:And in patients it's hard when you have to wait years to be able to see some things come to fruition. But when you say that you went for counsel, I mean the church actually shunned therapy, so how did you get past that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So this is interesting and this is just my personal belief. But I feel like we do people a disservice when we tell them, like Christendom says, like, oh, you just need Jesus or whatever, you just need God. And like everything's fine. And like, albeit, yeah, we do need God and we do need that higher power to connect with, like we also need to be able to manage our emotions and learn, like, okay, these are the effects of trauma, this is what it looks like in your life and this is how you have to deal with it and manage it from a psychoanalysis perspective and be able to have through it. It doesn't mean that like.
Speaker 2:God and like no other modality. I mean we would all be lost. So, in my opinion, I believe that, like employing all of these other things like therapy and being able to utilize, like different modalities to help me be able to process my trauma and my children be able to process their trauma, was going to give us an optimal life and that was what I was going for. So that's kind of how I, how I work.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and there's even Christian counselors, I mean, and you came across Miss Julie and one of the favorite things that she said to you that I loved was that guilt, and shame, you know, does not belong to you.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:That belongs to the perpetrator. That's hurt the kids, not to you. Traitor, that's hurt the kids, not to you, and I was so glad that you got to hear that from someone to remove that shame and get permission actually to feel that way and also to start taking care of you.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%. I love that. I still remember that to this day because you know it does rear its ugly head occasionally Like how could you do, do this, how could you marry somebody like this? And I have to constantly like no, I mean, julie was amazing, an incredible counselor, and the fact that when she said that it literally like helped set me free because I was like oh, I bet, oh, yeah, I could feel that for you it was so wonderful, I mean.
Speaker 1:and then you had a second chapter where it didn't go very well. But what I love most is that you know your second marriage was the fact that you knew he was not treating you well. You knew he didn't leave you, that you needed to leave right away. But you had become such a strong person by this time that your daughter immediately went oh, did he lie? And you're like, yeah, and she said, you know, started carrying his things out. And she had watched you stand up for yourself so much so that you know she said, oh, yeah, he lied. Well, no, he out. So I know it was just so cool to watch your strength be passed on to her absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean to know her now. It's like, oh my gosh, she's always been such a strong spirit. But, yes, like seeing her, even as a little child five, six years old like we're not going to stand for this, nobody's going to lie to us, nobody's going to treat us like this. We don't deserve this. You know, it is amazing, and I mean she didn't end up that way just accidentally. I mean, it was very much of me trying to encourage her to use her voice and to be strong and not to settle for less than what she deserved.
Speaker 1:You asked at this time I mean you had had some two, two crappy marriages. I mean let's and and you were starting to get pretty upset with God. Like you know, these people, other people, they have really wonderful lives and why?
Speaker 2:you know why God so I mean, did you stay in that question very long? You know that wasn't a really long season, thankfully, but I really did want an answer because I wanted so desperately to live a happy, fulfilled, victorious life and I tried so hard. I just kept. I couldn't get out of my own way and I'm not really a person, so I was trying to force things into happening and I mean, one of the greatest things about me is I make stuff happen and one of the worst things about me is I make stuff happen.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:It's like you have to understand, like how to bridle that gift, and I was like forcing it instead of just being like you know what, in this area, the right thing is going to happen for us at the right time. And I am not going to keep trying to force relationships or force people to do things. You know, because I have now taken control, I've taken that agency of my life, which was beautiful and a wonderful thing, but also realizing like, okay, I have to learn to trust myself again. That was hard because I've made so many mistakes repeatedly and I thought, oh my gosh, you know, I knew that it wasn't God's fault. Like I'm the one making these decisions, I can't blame God that I'm marrying another person that you know is abusive. So, anyway, it didn't last that long and I was finally able to come to terms with it, thank goodness.
Speaker 1:Well, you ended up having a head-on collision with grace, you call it I did.
Speaker 2:It was wild. Um, I've always felt unworthy, I've never felt good enough and I was coming out of my second marriage and I had, like this dream, slash vision, slash like out-of-body experience. I can't even.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and it was wild I mean you can read the book to get like the full effect but basically in my vision, in my dream, jesus came to me and he was walking toward me and my grace moment was just seeing this vision, this just person, so full of love, like the most perfect love you've ever seen. I mean there was fire in his eyes and he was just so beaming. He was this radiant love and I had never known love like that.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know, love like that existed. And when I looked at him I was like, oh my God, it was just so much perfection, I couldn't even take it. And I fell on my knees and I covered my face like this, like no. And he kept saying I love you and I'm like no, you don't, you don't love me, you can't love me. Don't you know what a mess I am. It was like don't you know what I've done? I screwed everything up. I'm a horrible person because I can't seem to get it right now. I've got two failed marriages. You don't love me.
Speaker 2:And in my dream he just took his hands and he cupped my face and he pulled my head up, just so sweetly and just compassionately and he said and it was like I felt it like down in my soul and it was like I don't need to walk around in shame anymore. I don't need to have my head shame anymore. I don't need to have my head down anymore. I didn't fail. I tried really, really hard to love. I tried really hard to be a good wife. I can't help it if other people have addictions and these things that they can't get over. But I am not a horrible human, because there have been things that have happened to me that aren't perfect. No one's perfect and perfect isn't relatable anyway. So it's kind of that turning point in my life, with grace that I don't know, and it was just the most wonderful thing that had ever happened up to that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really felt that when you painted that picture of that grace head-on collision. It was absolutely beautiful and you said in there that it happened to you and that's really important. I mean you didn't do this, these things happened to you. So I mean that was really awesome. Also, things started to get better for you. You really didn't need a man at that point. You were doing great on your own. You had created this whole world where you had money, you got a car, you got a house and you were really taking great care of yourself. But there was a place called eHarmonycom. So what? I mean? Tell us, that was such a great story.
Speaker 2:It really is fantastic. We love to tell the story, Even our like newer friends now that, like, have become close with us in the last few years, they're just like. That is just the best story. But I ended up signing up for eHarmony. One of my friends had a beautiful marriage and she's like I just think it would be great.
Speaker 2:You know, you're at a better place in your life, Like if the, if it's meant to be, like the right person will come along, but you don't have to force anything. And I just thought, okay, like it'd be nice to go out to dinner and maybe have something outside of just being a mom you know to do. And so I got an email from Dan, who is now my husband, and we ended up talking online, going back and forth via email for quite a long time, several months so ended up meeting in person and I mean the rest is history. It's interesting because I never dated anybody else off of me Harmony, just him. Oh, okay, His was the first message that I ever got and I never ended up talking to anybody else. I just felt like I didn't want to juggle like you know, three, four different guys or whatever, and we had great conversation and then ended up meeting and yeah, it was wild how my world had just absolutely flipped in the opposite direction, but for the better this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you did finally find someone who treated you well and your kids well, and one of my favorite parts was how Dan helped your son during a meltdown, the first time of meeting him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's really difficult when you think about dating again after you've had all of this trauma filled past. And then you know something we didn't talk about, but you know Ryland had a lot of diagnoses and he was on three different kinds of medications, including antipsychotics, just to like function because he had so severely been abused.
Speaker 2:So he had six sexual perpetrators by the time he was six years old. He was struggling emotionally, had zero coping skills and even with all of the medications antipsychotics different things that he was on it was still hard to regulate and I needed someone to understand that this is what I come with. I am a full package. I have two children and if you are going to be in a relationship with me, this is what you're going to get. And so we got to the point in dating where I felt like Dan needed to meet my son.
Speaker 2:And that very first night Ryland had a meltdown at dinner and he ended up going to the men's restroom and he didn't come out for quite some time. And so Dan asked me if I wanted him to go in and check on him and I said if you would, and Ryland was in the bathroom having him completely melt down. He was sitting in there crying on the floor and the very first thing, you know, dan's like well, what's wrong? Buddy, like you know, can I help you? Like what's up? And Ryland's like my food's awful and it tastes horrible and I don't like it and blah, blah, blah. He's going on and I don't even have a dad. Poor Dan, like God, I mean just getting dumped all over and just the very first meeting, bless his heart. But you know, dan, he's such a champ and he's like buddy, we'll get you something else to eat and don't you worry about it, it's totally fine. And so that was huge, you know.
Speaker 1:I love that. And he stood by your side through everything and it got. I mean, there was a lot more to come. That was even really crazier. And he stood by your side and even through it all, he said that it was the greatest job in the world to take care of you and your kids.
Speaker 2:It's wild to think about Like I would have left me. I mean, you know what I'm saying. It must have loved me Like it must be love, like nobody would do this if they were not, head over heels, in love with you I'm not kidding and they just wouldn't do it. I mean, there's just it's not worth it, you know. But he's like my biggest cheerleader. He loves the kids so very much. He ended up taking his case to adopt the children. It ended up going all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court because my ex Daryl appealed it and Dan stayed the course. And I mean he's just an incredible human, full of patience and love and kindness and all of the things that we needed from a past filled with trauma.
Speaker 1:And he had the best proposal ever.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it was. It was a flash mob proposal. It was so fantastic and his daughters were in on it, mainly his oldest daughter who was in a dinner theater, and she had all these people come over and surprise me during the flash mob proposal. That was great yeah.
Speaker 1:So you said that Dan didn't take anything from you. You know he didn't take anything from you. He added happiness and when I read that it just left me in silence, because that's beautiful. I love that. Ryland said that he was. You know that Ryland was actually calmer around him and at this time he's almost 13, and Dan was going to all of his sporting events and he loved having this father figure. So I'm glad that he got to experience how a man is supposed to treat his wife and kids and your daughter also, too warmed up to him as a parent.
Speaker 2:She really did, and so did Rylan, to your point. It was incredible. I had never had a relationship with a man and that's why I said that that didn't take something from me, like it brought something to my life. It's like I had always felt like I had picked takers, and that's obviously based upon my own mental health, right, because I was just trying to find somebody to want me, and you'll find people that'll just take you and then they'll take and take and take and take and take from you, right?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:Or what it is. It can be money, it can be sex, it can be time, it can be whatever it is. But it was like I always felt like I had to give everything of myself and I got nothing in return. And that's part of that people pleaser place that I was in and I have someone that was like oh, I want to fix you guys, you want to fix us dinner, like what You're going to? Oh yeah, don't worry about a thing, I'll bring everything over and I'll fix dinner for you. And I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:And then I'm thinking in the back of my head cause I have so programmed like am I going to have to have sex with this guy? Am I going to have to do something for this man? Is he going to ask me to do something that I don't want to do in a trade for the fact that he just made me a meal. Like that's how like messed up I had been in my past. And it's like I don't want anything from you, I just want to take care of you, I just want to be good to you. It's like, wow, mind blown.
Speaker 1:Well, you so deserved to be treated right after everything that you had been through. But when you were, you know, when things were going really well with you, one of the things that happened was been through. But when you were, you know, when things were going really well with you, one of the things that happened was your skin.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I got diagnosed with skin cancer the same year that Daryl came back from the proverbial dead after his nearly decade of a hiatus and my skin just took the brunt of everything Largest organ, no less. And I had done 20 years in the tanning bed. So I'd started in high school and you know that was kind of my time that I was, it was like my time, victoria time. I'd get, you know, 20 minutes. I can go lay in the tanning bed really quick, take a quick nap, and that helped me get through the rest of the day. The heat felt good and it just helped me feel better and everybody looks a little bit better with some sunshine and I always felt like that. And so when I ended up getting diagnosed with skin cancer, it was a long journey Lots and lots of surgeries, lots of biopsies, the topical chemotherapy creams, just all of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the story behind that story was the makeup and trying to not be pale, look darker, and you felt your beauty was in having that makeup on and not looking pale. Where do you think that that came from?
Speaker 2:You know, I think it was just like a deep-seated thing within me as a child, just because I always had this spirit of rejection, like this feeling like I just was never enough. And you know, I think that's kind of a different show for a different day, and I don't want to do a meeting of painting in the rain today, but I will say, yeah, like I was always trying to like do something big to make people love me. If I do this, they'll like me more. If I look pretty, they'll like me more. If I look pretty, they'll like me more. If I wear makeup, then maybe I can mask like some of whatever. Like that doesn't feel good enough, or maybe this will make me look a certain way which will cause people to treat me different, and then they'll be nice to me and then I'll have friends. It was just such like a state of insecurity and such a horrible just self image that I had, and so I was trying to always like cover that up and hide behind a mask per se.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just for the record, I waited till the very end of the book to find out why you named the book that. And I don't often read all the way to the very end of a book, sometimes with the epilogue and everything, but I read every word to find out why you named it that.
Speaker 2:So much. Thank you. I know. It was like I kept feeling like I need to tell the reader why this book is named this, and then it was so wild, because I just never got to the place earlier in the story where I could unpack that. But when you read it, though, doesn't it feel like it fits there?
Speaker 1:You know, I told my son, who's eight, a little bit about your story and why we were doing this podcast and I told him why it was named that and he went oh, that's so beautiful. And he's eight.
Speaker 2:I mean what a precious child.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And he said, Mama, that needs to be a movie from the mouths of babes.
Speaker 2:We'll take it. Yes, absolutely, I love that. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you had a dream three times and you started really feeling like Daryl was going to come back around. You know these premonitions that you would have. They were. I mean, they were real and he did start coming around again. You said that it was bone chilling to be around him and I've been abused where and when. My abuser if they even, or if I even sense that they're around in the same area I could be in, I mean it is. It affects your skin, for sure it is. You're scared to death.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that was part of my issue was just like my parasympathetic nervous system, like my whole entire body, was just constantly like cortisol overload, just all of the things. It was too much having to constantly be in front of Daryl because we were in three different court cases with him, so we were in litigation all the time and so he loved that, because he's a sociopath and he liked to be in control, which you've called a three-ring circus and I loved, I loved that.
Speaker 2:You know it really. I mean it was. It was like a circus I mean, he's a clown anyway but the bottom line was that my body, my physical body, was taking the brunt of all of the mental and emotional abuse. And I do want to just say that this is all coercive control in the court system, and I think there's starting to be a little bit more awareness about coercive control, but this really does have a name.
Speaker 2:I mean, these people that do these heinous acts, that commit these crimes and then they constantly are skating through the justice system and never being held accountable. They're very dangerous, and so we need to have some type of reform so that we can help victims. I never wanted to look at myself as a victim. I never wanted to say like, oh, victim, I was always like, no, I'm a survivor and I'm fine. But at the end of the day, like my skin didn't take the run on it and my body, my physical health, was suffering just because of that constant abuse. And having to see him and be in his presence because he is so evil and knowing what he had done to my children and I, and then being forced to look at him, was just more than I could bear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you went for such a long time without seeing him and then to see him at your son's track meet. I mean that must have been paralyzing.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely it was. I had a full-blown manic attack. I mean, it was a dark place.
Speaker 1:Right. And so then, when that starts happening with everything, with the adoption and the not being, I mean that became a whole different mess. I mean I just can't believe that you just weren't able to break away from him and have Dan adopt your kids.
Speaker 2:It seemed so unfair.
Speaker 1:Now, there was a number that just kept coming up in your life. What number was that?
Speaker 2:17. Yeah, it's wild. I had another dream one night and you can read the book to get the full story, because I know we're like wrapping but basically the number 17,. I woke up out of a dead sleep with this dream and the number was repeated twice in my dream and it was the number 17. And when I looked it up, the number 17 meant complete and total victory over your enemy. And I was like wild, I could not have made that up. I mean, I really, really couldn't. It was just unbelievable to me that I would even have a dream that would prophesy or tell of the future, that I would have complete victory over this situation, and nothing could have been more accurate because eventually we got there. But, yes, I started seeing the number 17 everywhere and it just was like that's amazing.
Speaker 1:I have that happen to me with numbers and they do have meaning. And right when the kids were getting ready to go into this visit with Daryl, you had something else happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm all about signs. I'm that person. It's like I'm not like wooey wooey, but like I am always looking for, like you know, the sign that things are going to be okay or whatever. We were in like a very metro area and a bald eagle flew down right above our car right before we went in to do this the first supervised visit Incredible.
Speaker 1:That was. That was absolutely beautiful. I mean the 17s and the Eagles. I mean that always says to me you're going in the right direction, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's how I took it.
Speaker 1:And I want to revisit what you said earlier about the lawyer thing. You became a lawyer in front of the very judge that had given you such a hard no breaks at all and also you got to question Daryl. I mean how empowering.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you that was literally like the greatest moment, because my husband convinced me to be my own attorney, Really didn't have any other choice. We were out of money, out of funds. I mean we're trying to keep, you know, the pressure on Daryl.
Speaker 1:But you were good at it. You were really good in that courtroom.
Speaker 2:I played a good attorney one time. You were good, I did. We worked really hard. We put together all of our exhibit books. We did recon for several months just to find everything that we could put into the exhibit books, and my main goal was just to question Daryl, get everything that I could out on the record, really. So I just needed him to answer my questions so that I could order the transcripts, and then I had him on cross examination for an hour and 40 minutes. He sang like a bird because he's a narcissist and he loves to talk about himself.
Speaker 2:And that judge, that wicked witch of the bench, she hated the fact that I was, you know, taking as much time as I needed and she threatened to take away my exhibit book and, you know, do it herself. She told him to plead the Fifth Amendment and gave him legal advice from the. I know I couldn't believe that. It's absurd, but to me I felt like the skies had parted, the sun had come out and that the angels were singing the Hallelujah Chorus. Because for me, I felt so empowered that day and I ordered the transcripts and hand delivered them to the feds.
Speaker 1:Your strength was just so amazing. I wish that I could have been in that courtroom and saw that, because that was so great. And now, another part was that your daughter you know now this is going on with Daryl and your daughter fought the fight for years to be adopted with Dan and her strength just kept growing and growing and her anger ended up fueling her when she was dealing with Daryl. I'll tell you what I was like. Oh you go, girl, you go.
Speaker 2:He is a powerhouse, let me tell you. I mean, she has absolutely flipped the script on him. And when he was like trying to control the visits, those visits where she was being dropped off, and he was going to pick her up and take her, she was just like no, we're going to have a conversation and you're going to come over here and this is how it's going to go. And I'm going to tell you. And he was like looking at her like you're the child you don't get to. And she's like I'm 17 years old, I am, you know, I do not have to put up with this. If you want to have a relationship with me, you come over here. And I mean, I was just so proud of that resilience and you know her persistence to use her voice and just speak up for herself and stand up for herself. You have to stand up for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and she did not. I mean bullies, back down when you reverse it and it's a bully. Yeah, he met his match. I thought that was great and I wanted to high five her when she disclosed her abuse to her teacher and she wrote a school paper and how powerful that was on. Victims can be victors. Let us utilize these traumatic circumstances to help others gain courage and boldness to discuss their issues, which ultimately will help them live better lives. She said, and I just thought that that was beautiful, good for her. You know she was silenced so much, but she was able to have a voice.
Speaker 2:She was silenced so much, but she was able to have a voice. She was and it's really interesting Like it only came at the tail end of that entire you know case that she was able to utilize her voice. But it's interesting because she earned an appointment to the United States Coast Guard Academy and she's currently serving there and getting her bachelor's degree. So I'm like super, super proud of her.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Incredible. But she's also been able to share her story with others to help empower them, which is what you were just talking about the paper that she wrote in high school. Now she serves as the vice president of CASA Connects Against Sexual Assault at the Coast Guard Academy. Oh, that's so great. She spoke at one of the meetings at the Coast Guard Academy earlier this year in the spring. They have like this once a year. It's actually Eclipse is what it's called, and she spoke at Eclipse at the Coast Guard Academy. Eclipse is what it's called, and she spoke at Eclipse at the Coast Guard Academy. She shared her story in front of the entire Corps of Cadets top brass. There was like 1,400 people in the place standing ovation when she gets done speaking. So she's continuing to use her voice for good and continuing to help other survivors of sexual assault and abuse find their way.
Speaker 1:And so is Rylan. He's speaking as well, which is amazing. I mean I would love to have him on someday, possibly I don't know, but I mean that's so great that their strength turned into being where they are, out there speaking their truth.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree, I agree with that sentiment 100%.
Speaker 1:Protecting your kids becomes a full-time job, and it did with you for sure. You should not have had to do all of that. While you were protecting your family, you also had to take on Daryl, and you started from one department to the other because you knew that something was wrong and you knew that he was living these different lives. When you started realizing, hey, why is he off the radar? You know so how did he stay off the grid?
Speaker 2:Well, he started using aliases.
Speaker 1:That was crazy.
Speaker 2:Wild.
Speaker 1:Unbelievable.
Speaker 2:I can't believe that he actually was so successful with it. I mean, I wouldn't even had, I would not have had the nerve to pretend like I was a prince of any nation and he did, Did he take on the accents and everything of a Ghana prince.
Speaker 1:You know I would.
Speaker 2:He would turn it on and off when it was slow, right, it was kind of funny. He would say it like on the stand. When he said his name, he said with, like his, his Ghanaian accent. It's not Adipo, like, because I would just say Adipo and he had to put that. You know that little accent in there for us. I'm like you are not from Africa, first of all. You're from Dayton, ohio. We all know where you're from, like on the west side, like you are. Definitely you've got an accent, but it's not a Ghanaian accent by any means.
Speaker 1:Well, you finally got the FBI to listen and it took a year and a half. I think it was where you finally got this phone call that let you know that they're investigating him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was actually the Secret Service.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, the Secret Service, oh wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's wild because Department of Homeland Security got involved because Daryl was also a pastor and so he had started a cult, and so there were a lot of people that moved with him across country and some of the people had family members that were concerned about them, and so they contacted DHS. And then DHS you know they work really closely with the Secret Service so it all ended up coming together and I got a phone call from the Secret Service and I'm like, and I got a phone call from the Secret Service and I'm like we just got called up to the big leagues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did. Oh, yes, you did. And what I mean P-H-O-P? When I see it, I see the word poop, so I don't know. I mean he started this cult. That made me think of poop, and I guess for a reason. And he did, he took everybody, he got them to believe in him and move them across Colorado, which, by the way, your God, was very much protecting your daughter that day. The readers will have to read it, people will have to read it. But yeah, she almost got kidnapped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she did, and that was one of our biggest fears. So you know we had a lot of fears, but that was definitely one of them and thank God she was safe and stay protected.
Speaker 1:So yes, we go through the whole court system and you know he's convicted. I mean there were 16 counts against him, is that correct?
Speaker 2:That's correct, and he was found guilty of 13 of those.
Speaker 1:Well, God is bigger than every single thing that he tried to do, and so, fortunately, god won, and so did you guys, but at the very end I think it was the US Marshals maybe they took his handcuffs off of him and what happened?
Speaker 2:So it was really wild.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you read the book it's a really really crazy long trial, two weeks long federal trial.
Speaker 2:Right after the height of COVID, and I was watching, after they had read his sentence or his verdict, and the federal marshal took his handcuffs off and then the other federal marshal put another set of handcuffs back on and he was already in shackles and I'm like this just seems so bizarre.
Speaker 2:But I was just like whatever, like I don't know. So they took him out and then we were leaving from the gallery and the courtroom and the US District Attorneys and the Secret Service were there and we were kind of just like debriefing, like how do you feel? Like what, you know, what's going on, whatever everything you've done to help us prosecute this case and to make sure that we brought justice, not only for the victims but also for you and for your kids and I just have a small token for you. And the Secret Service agent reached in his pocket and handed me those handcuffs that were on Daryl, and I was just like, oh my God, like greatest, greatest you know moment ever, I bet. Do you still have them? Oh, I do. They're actually like you can't see it in the frame, but they're laying right here, within an eye shot of me and my curio cabinet.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. And then you wrote to get where I am, I had to break free from the shackles of fear, guilt and anxiety. Now I live in absolute freedom. So what a representation that those handcuffs were.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know we can be in control of our lives, we have agency in our lives and we can take the control back from people that have tried to rob us and steal that from us. And so I didn't want to live a life of fear and anxiety and trepidation and constantly, just, you know, wandering, like I just knew that there was more for me and that there was much more for my children, and so I had to fight for a really long time to get to this place, but I can truly say, like I made it, I mean perfect life.
Speaker 2:I still have issues. We all have issues. I still fight all of the things, like everybody else in the world fights, but ultimately I feel like I've won. Else in the world bites, but ultimately I feel like I've won. I've won the game of life. I feel like I have amazing kids, a fantastic husband, a family that loves me. I love people. I get to meet people like you. I overcame my fear of not wanting to be sharing all of the mistakes I had made, but using it for the greater good, and it's working out swimmingly and I just feel really fulfilled and that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your story. It's so difficult but yet it's so empowering, and I can't find the quote, but one of the quotes that you said that I loved, had and you, if you can fill in my blanks something about. I mean, life is hard but you're going to get to the end of the day. 100% of the time it goes something like that, do you remember?
Speaker 2:I think, basically just saying like the time is going to pass anyway. So you know, try I don't know if this is the one that you were talking about, but just trying to utilize your pain for your purpose and, at the end of the day, like you're going to show up. You know you're going to have to live your life, so you might as well have a life well lived. You want to leave a legacy and you want to be able to inspire other people. I mean, that's why we're here. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think our purpose is to take our pain and to use it for good. And yeah, I mean, and that's what you're doing, and your book is absolutely going to help many people, many people. So, thank you.
Speaker 2:I hope so, Thank you, and thank you for reaching people and helping bring hope to.
Speaker 1:You know a really dark, dark world where a lot of people are suffering and we can help make it better and report it, and I will pray that you have a much better experience with all of those entities that Victoria did not have, because everybody deserves and I pray that maybe that there's some changes that happen through all of this 100% If not.
Speaker 2:I mean, I haven't given up trying to put a bill up that would help us get some type of. There you go.
Speaker 1:There you go, all right. Well, I really hope that everybody reads this book, let people know about this book so you can take all these little nuggets that are in there and then pass them on to other people, because I guarantee that everybody will, you know, be touched by this book in some way. Or you might know somebody that's been abused or has you know being abused and that needs some help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the title's Painting in the Rain A True Story of Trickery and Trying.
Speaker 1:And how can they get a hold of you on your website, or what is your website?
Speaker 2:It's victoriaellenco and it's Ellen E-L-L-E-N, and that's also my handle for all of my social media platforms Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, all of the above, so victoriaellenco, as well as on YouTube and you have to wait to the very end of the book to find out why it's called Painting in the Rain. Thank you, anne, it's worth the wait.
Speaker 1:It is worth the wait. I mean, I thought I wasn't going to get the answer. I really thought I wasn't. I thought I was going to have to ask you on here, why did you, you know? And then there it was. I was like oh my gosh, and it brought a smile to my face. It was a very mixed emotion when I read it.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, it just fit, it was perfect and you know we all are doing big things now and we're helping each other and I just appreciate you so much and thank you for all the work that you do to help people get out of these situations. And thank you so much for being on and for all the work that you do to help people get out of these situations.
Speaker 1:And thank you so much for being on and for all of our listeners. We will see you next time.
