Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
"First Day, An Adoption Story: Sasha Saidman on Love, Adoption & Belonging"
Can a children's book change a life? In this inspiring episode, author Sasha Saidman reveals how stories about adoption, differences, and self-acceptance meet kids exactly where they are—sparking empathy, imagination, and confidence. From celebrating adoptive families to embracing learning differences like dyslexia, Sasha’s books empower young readers to see their unique stories reflected on every page.
🎧 Listen now and discover why her books belong on every child's shelf!
Join us as we welcome cherished children's author Sasha Saidman, who opens up about the heartfelt inspiration behind her impactful children's book, "First Day, an adoption story." Sasha's inclusive approach avoids specific details, allowing every family to see their unique adoption journey reflected in her narrative. With personal stories woven throughout, Sasha gives us a glimpse into the special moments that define chosen families, making this episode a must-listen for anyone touched by adoption.
Sasha dives into the intricacies of open adoption, recounting tender stories that highlight the selflessness of birth parents and the deep connections formed through openness. We share intimate experiences about the ongoing supportive relationships that can provide adoptees with a sense of belonging and security. The conversation does not shy away from the emotional complexities of adoption, addressing everything from DNA tests and unanswered questions to the beauty of creating a safe environment for children to explore their identities.
In a heartfelt exploration of family dynamics, we discuss the emotional journey of reconnecting with biological relatives and how each adoption story is unique. From navigating the expectations of biological ties to understanding the richness of extended family networks, we emphasize the diverse experiences of adoptees and their families. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, we celebrate the profound bonds formed through love and chosen family, underscoring the specialness of adopted children and the shared experiences of adoptive families.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne and we have an amazing guest today. Sasha Sedman has written quite a few books. Sasha is a cherished voice in children's literature. She lives in Washington DC with her husband and two kids. I am so thrilled to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, and I absolutely loved your story and I'm thrilled that we were able to connect on your platform and chat about everything, including adoption.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is going to be amazing. Even though you do have several books out, I would like to focus on one particular. Now we're going to talk about all of them, but First Day, an adoption story, because it does hit so close to home for me. I've adopted all five of my kids, definitely yes, and every one of our stories is so different. You say First Day depicts the journey adoptive parents take to become a family with their child, and this is so beautifully written and illustrated. I have to tell you, I opened your book and the first thing that I saw was the words born in my heart forever. You will stay when I called myself your parent that very first day. That is a beautiful way to start your book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a really good friend who is working in social working and when I initially wrote this book it was very much inspired by my own adoption story, which was from infancy at a hospital with a mom and dad, and I shared it with some friends and I realized that no one else I knew who was adopted had the exact same story as me, and so we scratched it and we started all over again and my friend in social working said this would be amazing if you could relate to older children as well.
Speaker 2:And so we made a really conscious decision as I was writing this book, to not name parents, to not name ages, races, situations and to really just allow for an analogy where parents could really fill in the blanks to their own child's story, fill in the blanks to their own child's story and then at the end also write in their child's story, because it is so special. And I've talked to my mom about it many times and she said she wished she had something like this where she could have written down little memories and had even my birth family write notes in it and given it to me as a gift and read it to me as a baby and child, and I love reading it to my kids and they're biological but I love telling them the story about how mommy became you know, how grandma became a mommy to their mom, and I think it's just really fun and it's a great way to talk about it and open up those conversations.
Speaker 1:I love how the book is written because it is, you know, adoption story, but it's also so unique I mean, it's for everybody, but unique at the same time, and that was really cool that you did that.
Speaker 2:It was definitely difficult, because I know that everyone's adoption stories are so different.
Speaker 2:I have friends, who were adopted by single parents, I have interracial families, I have same-sex families, and it's beautiful, and I see so many books out there. I personally was read Tell Me Again About the Night you Were Born, which was the book my parents read to me. I loved it and it depicted my story, but it didn't depict anyone else's that I knew, so I wanted to make sure that it did, and I do have a few Easter eggs in there that resonate with me. I have in the children's bedroom. I haven't told anyone this, but so you're going to get a sneak peek. In the child's bedroom there's a Raggedy Ann on the shelf and there's an elephant on the shelf, and the Raggedy Ann is something that my birth mother gifted to me.
Speaker 2:And now she also gifted them to my children. So that's my little Easter egg for me. And I had a really dear friend who passed but he was adopted and when I was pregnant with my son, his parents gifted me with his little elephant. So I wanted to make sure that those little pieces of my story were in the book. But it allowed for other children to enjoy and see those images and that maybe they could pick out little things about their story, like the first time they did their handprints with their parents or their footprints or finger painting, and those are just such little core memories that parents have when they're becoming that family unit.
Speaker 1:All the firsts are so important. You know, one of the things that I love about your book is the calendar, and you ask families to circle their first day together. So can I just say that I've been on. You know, as I've said, I've been on both sides of this. I'm adopted and I've adopted on. You know, as I've said, I've been on both sides of this. I'm adopted and I've adopted all of my kids. 25 years ago I adopted my first two and then I've adopted my three littles, which it was official in 22, but we I've had them like eight years.
Speaker 1:So you know, it took a while, it wasn't fun, but it took a while. And I can remember the day that I met my kids for the first time, my older two especially. They were four and three and we met them at a McDonald's Playland. They were playing and you know, we met them briefly and then one of them started screaming dad, dad. And Steve was like you know, look who is calling for their dad and they're not, you know, responding and we're both looking around for this dad. That was him. He didn't realize that it was him because that was the first time any of us had been addressed as parents. We laughed so hard about that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that story and it's such like it happens in the most random places. I mean, I used to have like this ideal, as I became a mother, of like what it would be like and what you think, but sometimes those little moments in a McDonald's are those big moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, we still laugh about that because it was just you know, we had no idea. It's the first time that we were ever called parents, and those firsts are just so you know. They really are a lifelong memory. So you had an open adoption and I find that so interesting to me. I did not have an open adoption. None of my kids have had open adoptions, so maybe you could tell me a little bit about your story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, my parents were in their 40s and so they went to an agency and they were told they were a little bit old, so they had a lawyer who told them hey, reach out to everyone you know, reach out to friends, family, extended family, just everyone.
Speaker 2:Let them know that you're open to adopting and see what happens. And they reached out to my mom's aunt and she said well, I have a friend who's seven months pregnant down in Florida looking for an open adoption. Said, well, I have a friend who's seven months pregnant down in Florida looking for an open adoption. And so my parents flew down from DC to Florida and met my birth mother and my birth sister, who was 16 at the time, at an Olive Garden. And my mom said that she went back to the hotel room with my dad and said I want that baby and she just fell in love. They flew home and then I was born in late August and she spent about the whole month of August with my birth mother connecting with her, connecting with her belly and she.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite stories is she was in the delivery room with my birth mother and when I was born they swaddled me and handed her to my birth mother and my understanding is my birth mother pushed me away and said give her to her mom and my mom was the first one to hold me. And it just the selflessness, the connection that they had. And I actually recently heard my mom is currently visiting me right now and she told me on this trip we had gone to Vegas for my sister's wedding and we were all sitting at this big table with all of her wedding party and a guest had come up to my mom and said so who are you? Because we don't hang around, we're not from the area and my birth mother looked at her and she said we are their mothers and they are our daughters. We are their mothers and they are our daughters. And my mom just said it was so classy, it was so beautiful.
Speaker 2:I felt so warm because my birth sister was not adopted. My birth sister was raised by my birth mother and we have different fathers and then I was raised by my mom and dad. But I just I remember that and I always remember sitting in the kitchen with my mom calling my birth mother on Mother's Day and my mom talking about me and saying our daughter is so beautiful, our daughter, and it was. I never felt fearful of talking about that and she's never met my children. She's never met my husband but we text, we talk.
Speaker 2:She sent them birthday gifts. We have a really beautiful relationship and I'm really lucky to have it. I have a thyroid issue that I was able to text her about and say hey, do you have issues with your thyroid? My birth father has an allergy to amoxicillin, which my children and me both have.
Speaker 2:If I had abandonment problems because of my adoption, if I felt abandoned or I felt angry at my birth parents and I have to say that has to be further from the truth I know that every situation is different and every child will have their own emotions about it and I think that that is so valid and it needs to be said. But for me and my experience, it was so beautiful and so open and I was able to ask the questions and they were able to answer and I think that that was a really important part of my story and I think other people have more questions that maybe don't get answered. My husband was adopted by his father oh my goodness. And even though his mother tries to answer those questions, I know if they're not answered from that person, sometimes that wound just never feels fully closed and fully healed, and I've seen that firsthand with him and his experience. And I also have friends who were adopted by single parents and who just found out about their birth family recently and ended up finding siblings and flying to meet them and it was wonderful, but they went. You know, we're in our 30s now. They went most of their adolescence and early adulthood without having that connection and they're now having those answers. So they're working through those things now.
Speaker 2:But every story is different and that's really what I wanted to depict in First Day, because every story is is so different and every child's experience, every family's experience is so different and diverse and beautiful and complicated, just like every other family's journey. It's not just adoption, it's everyone's family is different, and so being able to put that out there so that people can connect with that, children can see themselves on the cover, I think is just really important to allow for that conversation and to just start it and allow kids to feel all the feelings, have all the emotions, you know, feel safe in their environment, feel safe with their mom, feel safe with their dad and, you know, call the mom and dad for the first time in a McDonald's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is. There's so many mixed emotions with adoption. It's very, it can be very complicated, but I think that that gift that your parents gave you all of them collectively together to make that decision, to keep it open is it's so beautiful and that, you know, for your birth mom I would think, and I don't know, that might have made her feel better and more of a relief, knowing you know I'm giving my child to these people to raise and have them be her parents for her life. And I don't know that's such a hard decision, I'm sure, for your birth mom and what a relief that must have been for her to have such a great relationship with your adoptive parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely think it was the ideal. My mom actually, after adopting me, became an adoption agent for most of my life and is now retired, so we really had a lot of adoption around us, and the stories that I heard of different adoption situations where it was supposed to be open and it became closed, or if I did not to give children you know all of the information, or any information you know I really felt lucky to have that situation. I did, however, have a moment when I was 18 where my birth father confronted me saying that he wasn't sure I was his. That's why his family was never forward with me and we did a DNA test. It came back. I had texted my birth mother saying, and she said nope, I know it, you're good, if you want to do it, go for it, but I can tell you and he wanted to meet me immediately.
Speaker 2:His family did, and it took me until I was 23 to go down and meet them because it was just a lot to digest and I needed to process that information and process it with my parents, and you know they told me that he had wanted that when I was little and they had said, no, I'd been poked and prodded enough, and if I became of age, that's a decision I could make and that's, I think, something that was really helpful, not just in that scenario, but giving me the reins in a very controlled, safe way, I think in general, is good parenting. I mean, you should never let your kid drive a car when they're five. But, you know, turn the car off, let them sit in the seat, touch the wheel. It, you know, negates a tantrum when sitting waiting for, you know, chick-fil-a.
Speaker 1:But you don't know what you know. You're opening up like a you know your box of memories and your box of what ifs and could be's and all these different things, and you don't know what's in that box. I mean it's so uncertain and not everybody's story. When they go and open that box is a great story and you know you, it's funny because when you're little and you think especially and I did know that I was adopted but you think, oh well, my mom's, this princess and she's you know all these wonderful things, and then sometimes it just doesn't work out that way and it can be heartbreaking in some respects.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100 percent. And I think managing those expectations if a child does want to pursue that is important. I think managing those expectations if a child does want to pursue that is important, and being able to tell them that they're allowed to feel whatever they feel. But that also means that their biological family is going to feel how they want to feel and that they might not feel the same and they might want different outcomes. And, just like any relationship, it does take two and we can want things really, really badly. And if they don't want it too, then we can work through it on our own and all we can control is our own thing. So if we choose to leave that door open, we can, but they might not always do the same, or they might want that door open and we might not feel ready to do that just yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had to find mine. I mean, we kind of knew bits and pieces because you know you get this file, they got this file with me and we found out some things and we knew that it probably wasn't a great situation. But then my adopted dad had passed away when he was 11, when I was 11. Sorry. And so, yeah, it and he was my person, and so then life kind of, you know, just blew up after that.
Speaker 1:Nothing was great, and then I went a really bad path and so then, and I think, a lot of the things that had happened to me before I was adopted, and then here's my dad gone and everything, it just kind of all came together and I wasn't able to handle it very well and I'm also autistic on top of it, so it just kind of hit me really hard. And so then we did go on this search for my parents and I don't think she was very happy that we found her, but we did through an investigator and I did have a very brief relationship with her and it was not that great. I'm glad that I did it. It was something that I needed to do and I think that a lot of people do, because it really closes those. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's a whole chapter within ourselves that belongs to that part that we need to address and have maybe some closure on honeymoon idea of the princesses and the castle kind of go away and it gives you a little bit of a reality check where you're like, okay, like there's, there's a reason I was adopted. There was a reason. You know that my parents are my parents now and you know I couldn't believe that more. My mom and dad were meant to be my mom and dad and that's who were meant to adopt me and raise me and give me all these skills and right, and that's how it was meant to happen. But I do think finding birth, family or information, their story, I think helps figure out who we are, because that is like a puzzle piece that we feel like is either missing or just a little bit out of place.
Speaker 1:And all of my kids have, even though one's 30, one's 29, and then these three are 11, 9, and 8. And every single one of them has addressed this issue with the biological parents very differently. And my older one, she really needed that, she had to have that connection, that connection. And my 29-year-old, she still has yet to want that. She just doesn't want anything to do with that. We talk all the time. She's just, you know, I'm her mom and she's good with that and she doesn't need that. And my younger three are siblings, and so they all. They ask a lot of questions and I answer them because I think that that's important, age appropriate. And we've gotten more and more, you know, direct with the answers, the older that they get. But that's something as well that they're going to have to figure out as life goes on. So, and you're right, being able to just say, hey, you know, this is on your decision as you get older and what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that that like the age appropriate honesty, I think, like I've talked to some of my friends who are biological children and they have biological children themselves and I ask them and I say, well, with your mom, do you have a closer relationship with her about things that you guys can talk about?
Speaker 2:Or does it create kind of a weird gap if there's things that she just won't talk about, and it's always well, yeah, if there's stuff we can't talk about, it always kind of creates a bit of a gif or a gap, and so it's like, you know, it's the same with adoption. So my dad is a little bit more closed about me talking about my birth family. He feels a little bit more threatened about any relationship that I have with my birth father. He sees himself as my dad. You know, he just that's what he wants. He doesn't. He kind of wants to forget the biological side of it, and so it's hard because I can't really talk to him. I have to, you know, kind of secretly text my birth father happy father's day, or, you know, if he does contact me, I can't really talk about it with him, which is sad and that's a loss, but I feel lucky to be able to ask my mom questions and talk to her and you know, just have that.
Speaker 2:That's biological cousin and it's cool. It's really interesting to have such a mixed kind of fun family. You know there's more branches, more people to love, more places to go If my kids want to travel. There's more people, I trust, around the country. You know that's awesome. You know, just be a call away, a little bit closer, so it's nice, it's a really nice connection.
Speaker 2:But everyone's is different and so, like you were saying, with your children having those questions and then your daughter not really wanting that and just feeling like, nope, that's my mom, I'm good, that's great, that's perfectly normal. I feel like everyone's experienced how they want to handle it. Yeah, like awesome, like I love the. I love when kids and even adults just advocate for themselves, like this is what I need and I'm good, like that's just, it's so important. And when you're in an adoption setting for children to just be like, hey, mom, can I ask about my birth mom? It's like sure, honey, what do you need to ask? Like advocate for what you would like to know. You know we will be as open as we feel is appropriate, but we will always be honest about the information. You know, and it's just, it's great, it's so awesome because it's raising those independent thinkers where they can just say what they need. You know, be out, there, be the squeaky wheel. You know, when calling insurance companies, it's just, it gives them strength and a lot of like defensive stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely oh. And my older two have no problem advocating yeah, but you know there's another side to it too, because it wasn't about being threatened so much as a mom. There was some of that there if they wanted to connect with their birth mom, but the other part of it was in their situation. It was not good, it was just not good. I knew what was on the other side of that door and I wanted to. You know, as their mom, I want to protect them. I don't. You have to be so careful in how you address those types of things and when it's okay to like open that door a crack and then to the point where you're ready to say, okay, you can go through and this is what's on the other side and I'll be there for you as you go through this, but it's scary.
Speaker 2:When she got remarried, his dad was like I'm going to adopt this baby boy and he's just a phenomenal person. But when I actually got engaged to my husband, his mom pulled me aside and told me some really gruesome details about his biological father and said don't tell him. And I said oh no, no, no, no. I said you need to tell him.
Speaker 2:He holds so much guilt, thinking that he was why his dad didn't want him, and he's been holding that. He's 39 years old and he's been holding it his whole life wondering why his dad didn't want him. You need to open up. And I went home with him and I said, mike, your mom told me some things would you like her to tell you or would you like me to tell you, because I know she's okay about it? Okay, this is your information and I've been given it and I don't want it. I don't want to hold it from you because I feel like, as someone who's adopted, the worst thing that happened was when people kept secrets and knew they were secrets. Oh right. So I'm like you know, if you do not want this information to come from your fiance and you want it to come from mom, that is completely your right. I right, I am letting you know there is information that you deserve to know. I'm open to telling you what I am aware of at this point, but you and your mom need to have a sit down conversation. He asked to tell me and we spent probably until 3 am just talking, crying, coping, just, and I could physically see it coming off of his chest of just unaware of the situations, of what his mother went through, of what he went through, his family went through, and it was just like. Like it brings tears to my eyes now because just thinking about it where it really is and it's like when is the right time? Is it when they're in their late 30s? Is it when they're 10 or 11? Is it when they're out of high school? They're out of high school, like it's really.
Speaker 2:It's so hard as a parent to know when to stop protecting them from information that you know will be hurtful and you know will be hard for them to hear and it's scary and it's unknown. And each child, I know, is different and has different emotions and different feelings. You know big feelings, little feelings, and it's like when do I, like you said, open the door and let them walk in and let them know that I will be here? It's like when is that right time? Is there a too late? Is there a too soon?
Speaker 2:You know all these questions and, again, it's not just adoption, it's life, it's raising children. When do you tell them about the things going on in the world? When do you tell them about politics? When do you introduce all of these things that are so scary? And what if they find out on their own? What if they find out on social media? What if they do a 23andMe and find out things from a person that I know is not safe?
Speaker 2:But I couldn't control that communication?
Speaker 2:You know, there's so many what-ifs, there's so many thoughts of what could happen, what should happen, and, as their moms, all we want to do is protect them and we want to be there.
Speaker 2:And I had someone recently tell me she has a 31 year old and she said I just want to go back to when a hug would fix everything. And I just feel that because right now my kids are at the age where a hug fixes everything and it just one day that's not going to fix everything, one day that's not going to help them with grades and it's not going to help them with college tuition. You know they're going to need more and we're going to figure out how to walk the path together and you know, one day they're going to walk through these doors that are scary and I'm going to hold their hand and I'm going to be there and I'm going to try and get them prepared and give them enough skills in life to be able to handle those situations, but really it's an unknown, yeah and that's really all that we can do as parents, and it's harder the older they get to be able to let go of those reins and let them All.
Speaker 1:Three of my kids are special needs. They have autism and ADHD, dyslexia. They have all the things I think like from A to Z, and there was a lot of trauma. There was a lot of trauma. So you know, it's just such a complex situation and every day we have to ask how are we going to handle this? And you know, honestly, I could be doing it wrong there. There could be days where I should have told them something or I should have, and. But I'm doing my best and I think that we all and I think you know adoption is can be in a very selfless self. It's. It's not a selfish thing where you're trying to, like, bring in these kids and take over this situation from this other family, and you know, and I'm and it's not like that and we could be really messing up along the way, but I think that we're really trying to do our best.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think that's all that we can ask of ourselves and of our kids is just do our best. And then tomorrow we're going to do our best and maybe it'll be a little better, and my mom tells me she goes you're going to try your best not to make the mistakes I made, and then your children are going to try not to make the mistakes that you made, and then it's just a cycle where we're trying not to do those things. You know my mom was never great about holidays and I'm now going overkill. And for all I know my kids could be like whoa mom too much. Right after Thanksgiving, the trees going up like absolutely not. When I grow up, I'm putting the tree up the day before Christmas. You know something that they deal with. But you know we're just, we're doing our best and we're being honest as much as we can.
Speaker 2:And my parents oh, go ahead, sorry. Yeah, no, that's what my parents did. They tried their best and they were honest, and that's all I could ask, because that's all they could do you know I can't ask for people to do more.
Speaker 1:As an adoptive parent, one of the best gifts that anybody can give me my kids can give me is just to call me mom. You know, I mean from the first time I've ever heard it, and it never gets old, it is just the most precious word.
Speaker 2:I know my mom had a moment when I was, I think, two or three, where my birth mother wrote them they were writing back and forth for the first two years of my life and said I'd really like to meet Sasha. And my mom said, oh, all right, let's fly. And I asked her recently and she said I can't remember if it was to Florida or to Maine, but she said the whole flight her heart was racing because she had this idea that I was going to have a cosmic connection to my birth mother and I hadn't seen her since I was 30 days old. But she was like she's going to run to this woman open-armed. I mean, she's going to know it's her mom, she's going to smell her. Like she had all these thoughts running. And she said they got to the airport and my birth mother was there and she said I walked behind her and I stuck my head out from between her legs, just like I did with every other stranger I met and she goes that entire trip. I was just hanging on to her leg. You know I'd laugh with my birth mother.
Speaker 2:I was a two and a half year old I. You know I loved everybody. But she said more than ever. On that trip I was just really attached to my mom and she said that just really. I was your mom. I was the one who stayed up with you late at night. I was the one who knew your food preferences. I was the one who knew how you liked your juice, how you liked putting your shoes on. It's the littlest things, but to a child that's mom. That's my mom, the woman who birthed me. I'm grateful. I have love for her. I refer to her as she's a distant aunt who I have love for. She messaged me. I send her pictures of the kids ever so often. I love seeing them and love getting updates. But you know she's a distant aunt. My kids wouldn't recognize her in a crowd and my mom is granny or didi and that's their grandma and my mom walks into the house and my son goes Grandma, this is my home and he's just, he adores my mom.
Speaker 2:You know we dropped off the train station before station before and he's just like where's my Deedee?
Speaker 1:And it's like that's grandma.
Speaker 2:That's mom. That's our person.
Speaker 1:You know you use a word and you've used it here on the podcast and I think it's other than the word mom. It's one of the biggest words when it comes to adopted kids and that's chosen, that word. Chosen is. It's such a special word to be chosen.
Speaker 2:It is and we needed that right at the beginning of the book that our children are chosen and they are ours. You know you're their parents and again, I didn't want mom or dad to be there just for different types of family dynamics. They needed to be able to fill that in and have that for themselves and that they're born in our hearts and that you really become a parent when you meet that child and have that special moment. And that's something I really want to bunny hop with this book is when I was pregnant with my children. I had pregnancy books and I haven't really been able to find one for adoption and for adoptive families, and so my goal is to make kind of a sibling to this book. That allows for it to completely be a fill in the blank where it has everything from. You know, did you have social workers? Did you have foster siblings? What were you wearing when your parents met you for the first time? You know all of these details that are specific to adoption, because my kids were biological. They were naked, but you know what were other children wearing? Were you wearing a tie? Did they put you in your favorite shirt? Did you have a favorite stuffed animal or a blanket, or did you hang on to a pillow that you had for the longest time with a special pillowcase? And so I really want to create something like that for birth families to have these prompts to fill out that are also very specific to every child, where you can just fill in what fits for their situation.
Speaker 2:And it's beautiful. They can have it just like a biological child has their pregnancy books with their ultrasounds. They have the pictures and the little memories of those little things that it's so hard to hold on to. Every single thing. You know the first outfit, the first time we went to get ice cream, the first time you had a cheeseburger, the first time we ate at this dining table, what did we eat? All those things you know, and it's hard to hang on to all those things. So having a place for it, you know, within your folder of their adoption, it's, I think it's special. It's something I would have really cherished to know about those details, you know, I know I lived in a long stay Marriott when I was born and so it's like, oh, would there have been a place for, like the ticket stub which I just could have hung on to as such a cool little scrapbook thing, or, you know, did you take me on the train, because I love trains.
Speaker 2:And so the first day we were together you said, okay, we're going to go on the train and we went on a ride around the city and just everyone's story is so beautiful and there is a place for it.
Speaker 2:So it's just about finding where we can put it, and so if I can help make a space for those stories to be told and cherished and hung on to, then that's what I want to do as an adoptee and it is hard because I'm not an adoptive parent. So my mom actually wrote the back of First Day. So if you look at the very back of it, my mom was the one who wrote that I had asked her to be a part of it and my dad helped edit it as well and I sent a copy to my birth mother and she actually shared it with the lawyer who helped with my adoption and she wrote me and she said it brought a tear to my eye. It's like one of those moments where a puzzle piece kind of falls into place, where you're like they're proud, they know that this was our story, you know, and it just it was really special.
Speaker 1:We are so much alike. I mean every single memory. I like to clip and have all these different things and I like I. We went to the Wicked movie the other day, and so I have that ticket stub and I like to create these memories. I have these boxes, you know, and it's just so crazy because I just want to hold on to everything. Everything is just so important.
Speaker 1:Like you said, I want them to be, and my one son was just looking at one of my books from when I was a lot younger and he just pulled it out and he's looking at it. And that's why, you know, because you want to be able to open those books and feel those same feels and, you know, remember and pass it down. And I've even gone around and started taking pictures of the things in her house that belonged to generations before me, because I want to make a book of those, with what they are and what they meant, because I want them to understand look, my dad made this right before he passed away. That's why it's so important, and this was my mom's, whatever you know. And I want them to be able to open that book and know, know, and then their kids and their kids know what these things are.
Speaker 2:And so when they're older, you know, some people might not be in their lives, some people might pass, they might have friends that they don't stay connected with, but they'll have these little notes from their birthdays of like wow, like that's so much fun, like I wonder where they are now or I remember them, or oh, I loved this person and I remember they passed. So it's special that I have these handwritten notes from these people that were just formed. I just it's so special to have those little things and I keep all of their cards.
Speaker 1:I have shoe boxes my husband makes oh my gosh, you're so much like me. Oh my gosh, I'm the same way oh, it's so bad.
Speaker 2:I have so much and even like for my books I have like the sketches and the drawings and how we need it to be and everything, and just it's hanging on to those little things. So, like, I loved having like a pregnancy book, so I'm like, oh, like, obviously there needs to be more for like adoption.
Speaker 1:There isn't very much out there. You know, we weren't talking about the things that we keep. My mom had this in her house and I have it in my house. It was a saying that really means a lot to me and it goes something like not flesh of my flesh nor bone of my bone, but still miraculously my own. I didn't forget for a single minute. You didn't grow under my heart, but in it, you know, and it's just such beautiful words.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, I think the line from the book where you don't have my ankles, my feet or my toes, but yes, that was so good when our love grows and it's.
Speaker 2:I remember I initially had something about your smile and I had contacted some people that my mom used to work with in adoption and she's an adopted mom and she wrote, and she goes well, children often mimic their mom's smile, so our smiles are actually like our mom's, whether adopted or not. So we ended up changing that line because I realized I do kind of have my mom's smile, even though I'm adopted. I see her and that's what I grew up with the smile in my face and the smile, and so I I see her smile in mine, and so we made sure that that was because they do, they do have our smile and I really like that idea of like I did get things from her and I did inherit things like how I do my hair and what type of skin I use and you know, oh sure, those we get those, yeah, yeah, because we did side by side with them, we did life with them.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it's that nature versus nurture, where, like, I maybe don't have a baby toenail because that was a biological thing from one of my grandparents. But that's such a small fraction of who I am as a person and I feel that the majority of me is nurture. It's what I was around, how I was raised, the skills I was given for how to handle life. You know my education, the people that my parents put me around, my friends. You know that's really what shaped me, because if you think about the type of person you could have been if you weren't in that situation and how different you would be, it really opens your eyes to like, wow, like I am because I was raised by these people, because I was raised by my mom and dad, I am this way. I'm living in this house. I had the experiences I did, I traveled, you know. I met my husband because my parents hated motorcycles and I needed to do a little bit of rebelling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. You know some of the most beautiful stories I hear because I'm really into American Idol and when the Olympics were on and those stories were and they always go into these backstories of adoptions and I owe my life to this person who took me in and, you know, raised me as their own and they really are the most beautiful stories. So and I really connect with them. And you know, talk about the smile my dad and I have. We had a picture of me and a picture of him and we had the exact same smile. We both had like this, you know, one-sided smile and it was both on the same side. So I still keep them together because it just means so much to me that, even though he was gone when I was 11 years old, so much of him still lives inside of me.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, yeah, that's so special and I love that. Like you said, like hearing adoption stories, hearing success, family stories, creating bigger families. I follow these people that foster to adopt on social media and I'm just like, so like, I'm like'm like, oh my gosh, like it's so beautiful. They have like three different Santas to make sure that each of their children's races are represented within. Oh, that's so cool. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, like they're just thinking so deeply about what their children need and want, and even if their children aren't asking for it, they're just they're thinking so deeply about like, what can I do to connect with my child so that they feel connected with my family? And I'm like, oh, yes, like- that's so awesome it is, it's beautiful and it's just.
Speaker 2:You know, how do we? How do we do that like it's and we're all trying to figure it out. Like you said, we could be doing it all wrong, but it's like we're trying our best, you know, and that's all we can do and I absolutely love that and seeing it and having that, even just like on social media with my books, like just being out in the world, putting that positivity, putting those stories out there, just reinforce that and just help so much, because I know people have traumatic stories and hard stories and there's adoptees out there sharing their stories, saying that adoption is these terrible things and it is terrible what these people go through. And there is a light and a dark, there is a bad and a good. There's always bad people in the world, there's always bad things happening, but there's also good and that can't be forgotten and that can't be overshadowed by Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Adoption is a good intent, it's a good love, it's good to make families and I see stories of 16, 17-year-olds about to age out and your heart just breaks because you're like who are they going to go home to, like who are what's going to happen? Like you just start having all these thoughts, like as an adoptee, I'm like, well, what would have happened?
Speaker 1:I used to work at a shelter for kids who were a, b, didn't have any parents and they were all older. So you know, I ended up having some at my house for Christmas and things like that. I mean it was a really great experience, but I felt really bad for them and one of them showed up on my doorstep when he did age out I mean he was 18. He had nowhere to go. I mean, lots of times back then and it might be different now, I'm not really sure, but you know, the shelter door opens, you're 18. Bye, and they still don't have anywhere to go. So there were a lot of gaps back then and I hope that they have more services now for kids that because they have no skills a lot of them and most people rely on their parents to help them to that next step. You know we all do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, college tuition jobs, helping even write a resume, getting a resume, planning for that, you know, having internships, you know I worked at my mom's job over the summer I'd help, you know, file paperwork at my dad's. I mean these are little things but they prepared me for the workforce, they prepared me, boosted my resume. You know, spell check All those little things home and create families. And when a child doesn't have that and they age out, it's an unimaginable loss for people who do not have the family to come home to the mom to call, when they're having a hard day, the dad to lean on. That's it. That's it. Yeah, I mean I know they have each other and I know I've seen a lot of these children who do age out. They really stay connected to their foster siblings and to other children and they just they band together and that is their family and I mean they've created that what they do their own family or they deserve that mother, father figure, that mom figure, dad, aunt, uncles.
Speaker 2:I mean every child deserves that. They deserve to be tucked in at night, they deserve to know where home is.
Speaker 1:I say all the time family is not blood.
Speaker 2:It's not. Oh my gosh, if it was, then oops.
Speaker 1:You know, I want to talk a little bit about my kids just for a couple minutes. I mean, I knew, the moment that I held my youngest son, that he was mine Before he was mine. You know, no matter how old they are really, and I don't think that you can explain it if you've never experienced it. I say that because I say all of this, because he was born and handed to me. I didn't get him until he was two months. I still really just knew that this was going to happen. That bond was just established like right there. Now my older ones they took time because four and three and then my other one was 18 months and my other one was a non-verbal, almost four-year-old, and it just it takes more time for that to happen. Did I know and did I love them just as much? Yes, but on their end, I knew that there was a lot coming in and you have to be a lot more cautious in how you handle the child that is being adopted and coming into your home.
Speaker 1:I can remember and this is really funny my now 29-year-old, the one that I'm mom and that's it. She was so funny. We had just gotten her and she was playing in the other room and I was in the kitchen. She runs up to me and she says you took me without saying please. And I said well, will you please live with us, will you please let me be your mom? And she just went, yep, and then she ran off and played.
Speaker 2:It was so funny. I love that. Have you seen the movie Instant Family with Mark Wahlberg? No, I have not. Okay, this is something that I'm going to recommend to any adoptee, adopter, adoptive family connect. It is a true story about a couple who adopted three children out of foster care, a teenager and two younger children, and it you know, you had this mom moment I remember you were saying with your dad and they had that depicted in the movie, where the little girl walks up to her, her foster father, and says can you help me with my dolly? My dolly needs help. And he helped her and she says thanks, daddy, and both parents looked at each other and the mom followed her and said I want some of that. Do you need any of it? And it's just, it's so real. I showed my mom and my mom's like eyes were watering the whole movie where she's like it's so real, the issues you have, like you know, an older child wanting to paint their room black. It's like, okay, not what I would have thought, but that's you Like, whatever works.
Speaker 2:It's like the first time disciplining your child, especially when they're a little older. It's like I don't want them to hate me, but also I need to discipline them because that's my job as their parent is to teach them right and wrong. And I have to do these things and it's hard and you have self-doubt. And my mom told me one time that parents of a child came in and he was 13 and they said our child hates us. He says he wished he was never adopted. What do we do? And she said I was not adopted and I always told my parents that I wish I was. That's awesome. She said some days your teenager is not going to like you and that's okay it's true, that's normal parenting.
Speaker 2:He's like I did not like my parents and my parents were not my adoptive parents, because that's normal. It's normal for your child to have questions and to use buttons that they have, and his button is the adoption button, so that's going to be used. Some days when he's really mad because he doesn't want to do his homework or clean his room or he's grounded from playing video games, it's okay. And it's like it's validating that feeling of it's okay to be scared and you're his mom and dad, it's okay. Like this is, you have a very normal mother-son relationship and some days it's really hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've heard the words from one of my kids, older kids. Well, you know, you're not my mom, you know, and those are words that really sting.
Speaker 2:Oh it's. I'm guilty of saying those words as an adolescent and I've apologized profusely to my mom for those as an adult and she would say well, I knew I was, so that was a me thing that I had to work out and I had to be secure enough to really, you know, take it, because there were going to be days that were hard for you and you were young and you had big emotions and big words and I, to this day, I'm still in awe that she took those because they were such blows, I know, to her and to my dad. And I had a lot of issues like you were saying, like, similarly, where I dropped out of high school, I took random paths that weren't safe. I did bad things. I did all the stuff. I lived a very full young life and I'm very grateful that I came out of the other side safely and healthy without a rap sheet.
Speaker 1:I say that too, and I did all the twists and turns and went on a lot of roads I should not have and I don't know, do you? This is an interesting conversation, actually, because I know a lot of adoptive. It doesn't matter when you've been adopted. I wonder if there is like this little thing that we feel that disconnect, connection, that little gap that happened in our life that takes us down that avenue. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I have friends who are adopted who've definitely done very straight narrow what the kind of expectation of adolescence was. But I've also seen a lot of individuals who really are eccentric with their choices of young life and I don't know. I'm kind of I don't know what to expect with my own children. I'm assuming they're going to kind of run wild, similarly to my husband and I, and I don't know if that's biological or if they're just being nurtured by people who did that.
Speaker 2:But I think that, no matter what, when you're being raised, whether it's your biological parents or your adoptive parents, I think there's always this feeling of have I been doing what they want me to do or am I doing what I would have been? I wonder what would have happened. I need to find myself a little bit more and go off the deep end occasionally. But again, having those parents who are in your corner, having your mom, having your dad in your corner, unlike those children that age out to be there as your safety net, and almost knowing that it's like I can only explain it as like you're just testing boundaries where you're like do you still love me if I do this? Will you still be my parents if I do that and having that almost reassurance, and then getting through it, you're like okay, I can literally do just about anything and I can still come home because you're mom and dad, and so maybe it's that.
Speaker 1:It's another level of finding ourselves, I think, and I think with the adoption process, you know, we are trying to find ourselves and there is an identity and all those things that come with it and who am I? But yeah, I think that that adds a different, a more complex level, I guess you can say on trying to find ourselves. And it also depends on trying to find ourselves. And it also depends on when you were adopted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the experience you had before your adoption, Absolutely the baggage you bring with you, the stories, the connections. I know people who were adopted a little bit older and they have foster siblings that they still are connected with today and they're adults and they were adopted by different families. They had different situations but they stayed pen pals, video chats, I mean they were for lack of a better word siblings their entire life, just raised by different parents at that point, because they had such a strong connection as young children in foster care.
Speaker 1:So when you said that, I mean what made you just say you know what? I am going to write this book for the masses with your such. You have such a beautiful adoption story. So what made you want to do that and spread this for all? Because one of my favorite parts is that you do get to write your own story. In fact, I think I'm going to do that with my kids.
Speaker 2:Actually we've added 10 more pages to that, so it's much longer, because I didn't. Once I got the first copy, I'm like, oh, we need to add like at least 10 more. So it's much longer now. I my first book I wrote was First Night and it was about my connection to my biological children and that was really special to me and it was a connection that I had with my daughter while she was sleeping on my chest and my mom was actually here and my daughter would not settle for her and I was trying to do dishes or anything else not baby related, because I was burnt out. And I remember walking in the room, picking her up from my mom and she immediately settled and my mom said oh, she knows your heartbeat, she just that's what she knows. She knows you, your mom. And I remember thinking to myself did my mom have that experience? Or you know, because she was mom from day one, but did I? Was that a fear that she had that she wouldn't be enough even for the infant, the infant, that the smell wouldn't be the same that the heartbeat? You know, were those thoughts that she had.
Speaker 2:So when I wrote First Night, I knew that I wanted to write another book that depicted my story, but I was an adopted parent so I sent this out. It probably took me. Over this whole year I've been doing research and connecting with people and figuring out the art and originally the cover was going to be three hands of different races making the adoption symbol. And I was talking to my artist about it and actually the front cover was on the internal pages, and when we came up with the sketches and she sent me the first copy of everything, I said, oh, this needs to be the cover, that's the cover. And so we completely changed it because I said I want children to see this book and say that's me, that's me, that's my sister, that's my brother, that's what, mommy looks like.
Speaker 2:That's what daddy looks like and I really wanted that to encompass every child, not just three different skin tones or three different age groups. So we really tried hard because I wanted to share it with all of my friends and family who are adopted and I had to figure out a way. How do I do this? How do I make? They had a very short journey but they were trying to adopt from Asia at the time and they had said there was a five-year waiting list, so they were prepared for that.
Speaker 2:And so I remember I'm dyslexic, so I'm very visual and so I remember visualizing this path where the forest is just full of clocks because you have no idea. And you're kind of going down this path where you have no idea where it's going to take you, it maybe feels a little bit scary and it's just there's no amount of time, you never know. Like you said, you held your baby and then it was two months and then it took eight years and it's hard and it's this path that's traveled and so everything really allowed for analogies where there's a boat and a plane and hiking and a train and it's like you know some people it's just flying down to Florida to meet an olive garden, other people, it's flying around the world and taking buses through unknown areas that they've never been to meet their children. And so allowing for those stories and to create those analogies and I remember the handprint one was really difficult for me because I said how do I create an imagery that is, you know, a more perfect laugh, like, how do I visualize a laugh? And it's like what do you do with your kids about laughing? You're doing art with them, you're playing with them, them you're getting dirty and muddy and getting fingerprints everywhere.
Speaker 2:And so we had that page of kids can see their hands and it again allows just for any child of any age, because every parent I know has taken their kids handprints, has done their footprints, have done finger thing, and it's just, it's as universal as we could do, um, on a paperback book from Amazon. But I have so Very beautifully illustrated. Yeah, I absolutely love my artist. I've used her for five out of my six books and we're continuing to work together on other books and she's just, we visualize each other so well and we can just really bounce off of each other. And she has a special connection to adoption and so it really has a special connection to adoption.
Speaker 1:And so it really was a special book for both of us. Well, it is very special because I think adopted kids are very special and I mean, come on, we're chosen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you know this is really funny a little bit about choosing, because our caseworker sat down with us and painted this absolute worst case scenario. You know, we're sitting in front for the first time, wanting to be parents, and they have you go to parenting classes and all these things, and it almost feels like they're trying to talk you out of it in a way, because they're like, well, you could end up with kids who are, you know, and just the worst, and they could have alcoholism in their background and all these different things. And I'm just sitting there and I'm okay, okay, all right. And then she says are you still sure that you want to do this? And I'm like, well, if they were born for me, they would have the same background. So what's the difference?
Speaker 2:I know that's like the craziest thing is like I've asked people where I'm like. Are you what your parents wanted you to be? And you're biological Like I know. Are you what your parents wanted you to be and you're biological Like I know? I know plenty of people who are biological children and they are not at all. You know, dad's a lawyer and now child is an artist and dad doesn't approve. And it's like you don't know. You never know what you're going to get.
Speaker 1:This is the end of part one with Sasha Sedman and join us next time as we continue the discussion on her books of adoption, and one of the ones that she wrote was Melanade, and that's an awesome book that we're going to talk about dyslexia and many of her other children's books and if you know anybody who has dyslexia or any other disability they might want to tune into. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time.
