Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Battlefield of your mind: Trust, Faith and Believing Lies
Do you like where your thoughts are taking you? Our minds are powerful instruments, capable of leading us toward hope or trapping us in cycles of fear and doubt. When facing situations we can't change – like caring for a loved one with a debilitating condition or confronting triggering circumstances from our past – our thoughts can either become our prison or our pathway forward.
Fear manifests in countless ways: constant anxiety about worst-case scenarios, the belief that we aren't good enough, reluctance to trust others after being hurt, or isolation when connection is what we desperately need. As we explore in this deeply personal conversation, many of us live our lives believing doors are locked when they actually aren't – held captive by perceptions that have become our reality.
Drawing wisdom from Craig Groeschel's "Winning the War in Your Mind" and our own experiences, we unpack the powerful truth that a lie believed affects your life as if it were true. The negative messages we've internalized – often from childhood – can follow us for decades if we don't confront them. Yet even in our most challenging moments, we retain control over how we respond, who we trust, and which thoughts we allow to take residence in our minds.
This episode offers a raw look at navigating chronic difficult situations, building trust when you've been hurt, finding strength in vulnerability, and creating respite within storms you can't escape. Whether you're struggling with "stinking thinking," feeling paralyzed by fear, or battling feelings of unworthiness, remember this: you are not who others say you are – you are who God says you are. And sometimes, the bravest thing we can do is to keep moving forward, one step at a time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Tina.
Speaker 2:And I am Anne. I have a question for you, tina, and for everybody. Do you like where your thoughts are taking you? Solomon in the Bible said as he thinks in his heart, so he is. You have to change your mind, to change, and you know I have to be honest right here. Old thoughts have come into my head and it is not a good place to live right now. And it is not a good place to live right now. I'm not loving it.
Speaker 2:I wish I could say that I'm just not going to do this, but I honestly think that it has to do with how strong a person is at the time or how weak you feel, because I'm not feeling that strong right now. I'm still getting up and moving. You know that, fake it till you make it. But I'm having this where my old problems are my now problems, and my head is having a hard time getting past this. I'm telling myself don't do this, don't allow hard times to lie to you about who you are or that you can't move forward.
Speaker 2:What do you do when you're in a bad situation that can't be changed? You can't do anything about it. For instance, tina, you know your mom is in a really tough spot and she's going through a really hard time and that is a chronic situation. And what do you do when you're in that kind of a situation and you can't do anything about it? It's a chronic state and you have to constantly talk to yourself about how you are going to move forward in this.
Speaker 2:Another instance is and I want to talk about this, but I want to talk about it very carefully you know, I had a situation that drained me to my core back in the day and I didn't know what to do. Well, it was a different time, but different. But not all things are changeable, you know, and we can just leave in some situations, but we have to figure out how to live in certain things and without believing the lies that might infiltrate our thoughts along with it. I'm reading this book Winning the War in your Mind by Craig Groeschel maybe his name and one of the first things I see which I swear this wasn't by mistake or, you know, it's kind of like a God thing I can let God's thoughts become mine.
Speaker 1:That was a lot to digest and I think it was so powerful. And the book by Craig Groeschel, I feel like, is something I should be reading too. I read something this week, ironically, that made me ponder the very things that you're talking about. This is from Adam Grant and it said a sign of wisdom is choosing not to believe everything you think. A mark of emotional intelligence is choosing not to internalize everything you feel. Thoughts and emotions are possibilities to ponder, not facts to accept. We always have to invite them in, but we do decide whether they deserve to stay. Amen, sister, friend, and I thought that was so powerful. It's had me kind of thinking all week and I feel like whatever issue you're talking about has triggered your past, and that's okay. I don't like it for you, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:And I think that you're right. You just have to walk with it. And in reference to my mom, that's sort of how I feel. In a few ways, I am thankful for how I've been changed internally, meaning I really have the patience of a saint, and I never thought I would say that I'm so proud of how I treat my mom and how I love her unconditionally, even when it's hard. So seeing that about me and seeing how it has impacted our children, particularly our youngest son, has been a beautiful, heartbreakingly beautiful thing to see. I wish he knew her the way I knew her, but he loves her just as she is. That's powerful. There are times where you're just going to have to embrace where you are, whether you like it or not, and just have to keep moving, because moving is motion. Motion keeps us going and it will eventually take us to where we want to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, our lives move in the direction of our thoughts, and that's just a fact move in the direction of our thoughts and that's just a fact.
Speaker 1:And it's okay that you have those thoughts where you need to pause and process them to be able to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually I had some meetings with some people in the last couple weeks that I don't and I'll talk more about this later in the podcast but I really don't like to bring people outside of my circle into my life. I don't like to, and unless I choose them and I trust them, you know, and in both situations, when we were talking about what's going on, talking about what's going on, they said wow, this has got to be so triggering for you, how are you? And that instantly shuts me down. When somebody asks me that question, you know, like Tina, if you would say, oh my gosh, ann, that's so horrible, how are you? I'd be fine with that question because it's you. But with somebody that I don't really know, it brings up this oh, I'm fine them.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I am for counseling. I don't want this to appear as if I'm not for people on the outside coming in and helping, but I have to be honest, I have a wall with certain people and it just instantly goes up when they say, well, and how are you? And it's just like, oh my gosh, well, and how are you, you know, and it's just like, oh my gosh, I'm good, and that's the only thing that you're gonna get. So it's being able to let other people and it does. It's a trigger.
Speaker 1:I can tell I'm sorry, I wish I, I wish it wasn't. But hopefully you can move forward and be able to put the wall down a little bit so maybe instead of a door it becomes a window, and then maybe you can open the window a little bit so that you can eventually be able to communicate and see that as just a friendly. You know, that person maybe doesn't need to know all the things about you, but maybe you could say boy, you know, I'm okay, just, you know, struggling a little bit right now with A, B or C, or I'm okay, I'm just struggling, or I'm just in a season of hard, and then see what happens from there. But I mean at the end of the day because I do this too, if I don't feel comfortable with you, you're not going to get anything out of me. See, it's true, but I think I mean in a way I would say I think we need to listen to that too. There are different levels of friendship and trust with different people.
Speaker 2:There just are, and that's why you have the inner circle and then the next circle and then the next circle. Sure, yeah, I mean, when I was in college we had that target. You know the little circle and then each one and what they were, and you know letting people into your inner circle and how important that is and boundaries and everything. So, yeah, I mean, you know, in AA it was a thing called stinking thinking and that's what I'm, and when it gets a hold of your brain it's not a good thing. And normally in AA or in treatment that's when you call a sponsor. You know it's like, okay, I've got some stinking thinking going on here, I'm going to call, or my friend and you know I have lots of friends and sometimes it just gets to the point where in a situation like right now that's going on in my life, it's so much. It's like you've been stabbed, like you're breathless, laying on the floor and you don't have anybody that you really feel like you want to talk to and really the only one that you trust is God. In my case, the only one is God.
Speaker 2:In the book Winning the War in your Mind, he quoted from 2 Timothy 1.7, exactly what a spirit of fear is, because I'm not myself and I really didn't think about what that this could actually be a fear in me that's happening. So when I looked it up, the first thing that came up was constant anxiety or worry, feeling overwhelmed by what-ifs and worst-case scenarios, a tendency to anticipate danger even when it isn't present. And I can say that I probably am there right now. My thoughts are not in a good place. Like I said earlier, you and I have talked about how our nights can be, you know, sometimes in the middle of the night, and that's kind of where I'm at, even during the day.
Speaker 1:I hate that. I'm so sorry. I know, though, you'll be able to work through it, and I can relate to this and I know so many people can too of that feeling of being consumed by anxiety, the what ifs. It's like your mind is playing out a thousand worst case scenarios all at once, and then, when night hits, it feels like everything amplifies. Right, I don't understand why it does that, but it does. But here's something I've learned Fear thrives in the dark, and when we can start to bring light to those thoughts and to just name them for what they are just thoughts they can lose their power over us. I think you know, I will say, in the journey of walking alongside my mom with her early onset Alzheimer's, it has opened up Pandora's box for me. I, you know, I take anxiety medication. I've taken it for almost two years now because of how deeply this has just opened up the spirit of fear, if you will.
Speaker 1:And then other, just sadness, extreme sadness. I mean my mother's not even 65 and we're in the late stage of it. Things you know when you're a little girl. You just assume, and as, even as you grow up, and even as of just a few years ago, I would just assume that I would have my parents until they're 80, and that's not going to be the case for my mom. And so I feel sometimes that I am alone, not in the physical sense, like, yes, I have a family, a husband, kids and my mom and dad, if you will, and friends, of course, but sometimes I still feel alone in that nobody understands what I'm going through.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because when someone dies, you typically have that support around you. It's usually for a period of time and then people's lives go back to normal. But what about those of us who've been caregiving for five years, any amount of time, and you don't have, per se, that support? Now, that's not to say I don't want any friends listening, who I have that ask about my mom or who send a card every couple of months. That's what I mean, that is what I need, and I'm just saying in general.
Speaker 1:If you don't have the support system, at times it can really feel like you are so alone, and I felt that. And then the thoughts start to go down that rabbit hole, kind of like what you were talking about, and it's really hard to get a grip on them because I feel like they go down so fast. They're spiraling, you spiral, it's spiraling so fast. And that's why, if we can bring to light, bring light to those thoughts, just name them for what they are. Okay, they're thoughts. And remember what I'd said earlier just because you feel something doesn't mean you have to keep it inside of you, doesn't mean it's um, it's real or it's not. Do you know what I mean? You, you get to decide, and so I I think that maybe if we could just say, okay, these are just, this is just a thought, and it's going to pass, then it'll lose the power over us yeah, I mean, I I really do do believe that our thoughts are just some of the most strongest.
Speaker 2:They are the strongest things and they are really what I said earlier. They're just in control and they can create what is one of the next ones, a paralysis or an inaction, and you know, I have felt this at times. But this is when action and strength just has to take over and no matter what, like you said, I mean it is a keep moving. We've talked about this before on the podcast, but I can literally feel myself telling myself one more step, one more step.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Oh, I've been there. I've been there. When I was on my hiking adventure on the Kalalau Trail, this is what I felt I was paralyzed by my fear of falling off the side of the cliff because our day to hike in was during a tropical storm and so I felt I literally froze on the side of a cliff until my brain like shifted into gear. It was like get out of neutral, you have to keep going so that you do not fall off of here. It was like Tina, keep going now. I mean, I was literally that intense with myself and I experienced that too when my mom was first diagnosed Completely froze me, it paralyzed me, it consumed me, and then I had to pick myself back up and say you have to start doing something so that you don't stay in this hard, messy place for too long. I believe the longer you stay, the harder it is to get out. You have to feel it, yes, but you can't stay there too long. It gets harder and harder to get out.
Speaker 2:And that's where it comes down to. What I brought up earlier is that you know what do you do when you're living in it. You know it's not a situation where it's in your mind only, it is a. You are living in this situation and you can't get out of it. There's, I mean, the only time that you can get out of it is when you create your own respite. You know, maybe it's prayer or just getting away for short periods of time, going in another room or just doing whatever you need to just to feel a little, maybe a bath. You know those are the types of situations where you really can only get out of what's consuming you, and so it's more than just your mind. You know, as soon as you leave the bath, as soon as you leave whatever, whatever it is, you're walking right back into what's creating the stress. So you know it's there's not much of a respite time and it't give you and your body your mind isn't really made for that to live in a constant, chronic state of fear.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right. I don't know that there's one right answer for how to deal with that. I think you listen to your body, you give it the respite you can, what it needs when you can, and just know that and trust you are going to be equipped to handle it. And I also think, along the way, be open to learn something through it or from it, because I think there's always, at least I really, truly believe. I try to always look at the lesson. I tend to ask why left and what do I need to learn?
Speaker 2:more. I have this thing where. And the lady yesterday in the meeting first time meeting and she's saying you know how is this affecting you? I told her the truth in that I kind of bragged about myself a little bit, in that I feel sometimes like I'm a superwoman.
Speaker 1:That's because you are, I think that, often about you.
Speaker 2:Because I have this really cool thing about me that I can just keep moving and it doesn't really I don't know like I can start every single day brand new. It's a clean slate. Just start over, move on and something might take me back for a little while, but then I can just wash it off and continue on and the resilience and the strength in me is so strong. I've had some really big conversations with God lately some of those why? Questions and I guess I have to also realize that he's given me strength like no other for me to be able to do it.
Speaker 1:And he knew that I could do this. It's like the. I think it's like a tree You're in the pruning season, but what happens after you get pruned? You bloom. So you're getting trimmed right now, you're getting tested right now, and I think that this is a big period of growth for you personally.
Speaker 2:That's going to happen from this, and lots of times these kinds of things do happen when there is a lot of success going on around and good things going on around at the same time. So it's not allowing those things, because there is a lot of really great things going on in my life, so it's allowing those really hard times not to stop me from being able to grow and be happy and joyful about those really great things.
Speaker 1:And at the same time, be okay and not beat yourself up that there are these great things, but there's also a hard thing too, and they both have to live together.
Speaker 2:Well, we kind of talked about that in our last episode that we taped together, you know. And another one that they talked about for fear is self-doubt, believing you're not good enough, not smart enough, not strong enough, and constant second-guessing ourselves and having a lack of confidence.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. But here is the truth Self-doubt is just fear in disguise, and fear only has power when we believe it. So I would say you are enough. To anyone listening. You are capable, and every time you show up, even when you're doubting yourself, you are proving that inner critic wrong. Confidence isn't about never second-guessing, it is about pushing forward anyway, and I think that we all have what it takes, even if we can't see it yet. But we have to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:Another one is fear of judgment or rejection. Is another one Holding back your true self out of fear either of what others might think or avoiding vulnerable situations or meaningful connections, and I just kind of explained how I kind of do that.
Speaker 1:I can really relate to this one too. The fear of judgment or rejection, I think, is so deeply ingrained in so many of us that it does hold us back a lot of times from showing up as our true selves. And I know how it feels to hide parts of yourself or to shrink back because you're worried about what others might think. But here's the thing Vulnerability is actually where we find real connection. So the more we allow ourselves to be open and authentic, the more I think we can create space for others to do the same. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's something that I work often at, and I'm getting more confident with little by little, and I think it comes with age too, to be honest. But I do think it's possible. We can choose courage over fear. So trusting the right people will see us for who we really are. It's kind of about that circle. You know that being vulnerable isn't a weakness, it's a strength. Love yourself and others will too. At least the right people will. There's only one you. There's no one you-er than you, isn't that, dr Hoots? And I just I love that.
Speaker 1:So if I ever hear my kids say, oh, I want to be you know, I want to be LeBron James. I think that's great, to aspire to be like him in many ways the way he takes care of himself, the way he takes care of his family, the way he acts as a person. He's never been in the news for anything awful, so, yes, but you are who you are. Let's just say your name is Joe, you are Joe, be Joe. Yes, you can be like LeBron James, but there's only one you, so no one you are than you, and I hate to see when anybody holds someone back or gets held back. When anybody holds someone back or gets held back, I like to think that I'm a safe place and a place that's warm for anyone to just be who they are. We don't have to agree, but I can still love without understanding, and I think if more people understood that, the world would be such a happier, more peaceful place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's a reason that I went into counseling for a degree I have a master's in it and I think that one of the reasons why I went that direction was because I have this where people want to come talk to me, you know, and I have always had this heart for wanting to help people. I've always had this heart for wanting to help people and I have that openness towards other people, I mean in a lack of judgment. You know, I genuinely feel for the person and where they are and want to help them wherever they are, and but I have a real problem with reversing that and being the one on the other end, and you know it's I keep people at an arm's length and that's just where I feel comfortable. And I know too, I'm autistic, and so that absolutely can have something to do with it. That absolutely can have something to do with it.
Speaker 2:Like I said earlier, Tina, you said about yourself, it's true, because you would be somebody that I would go to and I wouldn't even hesitate to call you if I felt like I needed to talk to somebody, or. But you know, I really don't like this about myself and I find that interesting that I don't like it about myself. Why do I do it then? You know, that's really interesting to me, I find others.
Speaker 1:I think this is the area where you will probably be growing. Maybe or it is okay to keep some people you need to keep at arm's length. Maybe it's about reevaluating who is someone new that you could let in because they might become an important part of your life and help you through this next chapter. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:This might. This is a wall. It is a wall for me to talk to people about my I don't even want to call them problems my situations and to let somebody in. I really in some ways envy people that can just sit across from somebody in a 50-minute hour, you know, for counseling and just say you know, this is where I'm at. I don't mind being vulnerable, like I said, I don't mind being vulnerable in writing. That's what I do. I'll write or talk to God out loud, I'll walk around the house talking to him for an hour, you know, which, by the way, really does help me. It honestly does so. But to sit across from somebody else that I don't really know that well it's. I think maybe it's something that I need to work through because you know it's really funny.
Speaker 2:It's like I had a really hard time with adults, authority people, you know, like that as a kid. Okay, school in general. Then I had my older two and I had to keep getting called to the principal's office again kind of funny and deal with that. So second round here I am again dealing with all the schools and everything. Now I adopted my grandkids, who you know I don't even like to say that because they're my kids. But I'm in my third round of childhood, you know, raising kids. And now here I am again, constantly in the school system, having to sit across from authority figures, from people that are making decisions about my kids, and I just find it so funny that the thing that I didn't like the most as a kid has revisited me more and more all the way through my adulthood, like I'm talking about with this counseling thing. And now here I am. It is really pushing me outside of my comfort zone. So I guess that this is what I'm supposed to be working on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say this is where you're supposed to be growing, but I don't think that it is easy and I would imagine that perhaps something you know from your past is obviously stirred up and maybe you feel judged it's legit.
Speaker 2:It is just trust I don't trust.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it's because people have broken your trust over the years and so that wall has been built so high and that's been your safeguard for so much of your life. It is hard to start letting it down, but I think that this is a season where you're going to learn how to do that, at least in some capacity. It sounds like Well to piggyback off of that in 2018, through a sad experience, I learned something so important and it became really invaluable to me. Sometimes truth strength comes from letting go, so trusting that not everything needs to be controlled and it's okay to surrender to the flow of life. I think it can be about finding peace in what we can control our mindset and our actions and then just releasing the rest, because I learned that year, there's so much we actually do not have control over, and when you let go of control, it really does make you feel more free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really does, and it's probably control is so being able to let go of that is probably, I think, one of the hardest things that we do Trust and control, letting go.
Speaker 2:Right, I would agree with that other one that they talk about is isolation, and I'm not good in isolation. That brings up fear in me. That's another one. Well, for one thing, you know, my life is so full of people I really can't get away from people and I don't have a choice about that. But on the other side of it, I do like my time alone, but in short periods of time. But in general in living I don't like being alone and I thrive around others, and being alone for too long can create more of a fear. I mean, it's okay to be alone at times because, like I said, we all need that. I think it's healthy for us to be alone and that's my time, that I can kind of process and work through things, talk to God, kind of be quiet for a while. But yeah, no, I don't like the isolation thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a difference between quiet time and then isolation. You know, quiet time brief period of time, isolation, more lengthy Some of us really do, I would say the majority of us come alive around others. We're all hardwired for connection, and extended isolation it does make you feel heavy and even a little scary because your thoughts can really start to take over. I had a conversation just a couple days ago with a neighbor friend who was talking about that very thing. Both of the kids were gone for the weekend. Her husband was too. She said, boy, that loneliness or isolation, she said her mind started to get to a rough place and she had to pull herself back up pretty quick. And that's what I mean. I think that alone time can be healthy, but too much of it does make your mind wander into some hard places and it's important to know what fills you back up. And for you it sounds like connection is a big part of that and it's really beautiful that you have such self-awareness.
Speaker 2:You know I was. I don't know if you know this about me, but I was born well, not born this way. But you know, as an infant, shortly after birth, I was diagnosed failure to thrive. I was a failure to thrive baby and when you are a failure to thrive baby it is oftentimes due to not being nurtured, loved on and so that isolation feeling. And actually what's interesting is when you take somebody that was a failure to thrive as a baby and then you get in isolated times, it is that same kind of a feeling. It brings up that failure to thrive kind of a feeling and it's almost like the life is being sucked out of you. So it's kind of interesting that feeling, and it's a feeling that I know, even though you know it's kind of like a body memory, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I know that you have talked about feeling like you can't have someone to turn to or feel, you know, alone isolation, as we're talking about, and you know, I've felt that way too, and nobody wants to feel or be lonely, like the weight is all on your shoulders. You have to do it all alone. The truth is, we're not meant to go through life alone or do hard things by ourselves. So maybe if even just opening up to one safe person can make a difference, I think that's so important. And just to know you're not a burden, I'm talking to you, I'm talking to me, I'm talking to all of our listeners. You're not a burden.
Speaker 1:You're human and you're allowed to lean on others. For me, it is a real honor to walk alongside my friends and family during the good and during the hard times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I really believe that, because I prefer being on that side and I enjoy being with somebody, not that they're hurting, of course, but being a person that they trust, because I know how hard it is to trust, to be that person who doesn't trust. And when somebody trusts you with their hardest times, then you know that's really an honor. You know we've all been hurt, We've all felt that fear and know that that's really an honor. You know we've all been hurt. We've all felt that fear and know that others might have to come into our world which is what I'm kind of going through now and it become it does become a scary thing, for instance, with your mom, caregivers, doctors. You know these are all people that you really don't, but you're forced to have them in your world and trust them. That's so. I don't know. It's just it's really difficult and weird. It's strange.
Speaker 1:It's scary, and my dad and I talked about that aspect before of him not being ready to have strangers, if you will, in his home. But we are to that point where we're going to need help, and so my mom is getting an in-home evaluation in just a few days and that he has talked about. I think that more so, perhaps, than it being a stranger in the home. I think the deeper underlying thing for him is that it makes it more real where she is in her journey and how hard things are for him too. So I think it makes it more.
Speaker 2:I think it makes it more real and that, and that is difficult to deal with you have to make these decisions and when it was hospice in the hospital, hospice at home, and even hearing that with me being the only one taking care of her, you know, I mean, it scared me to death. And even though it was a hard decision, we chose the hospital and I'm glad that I did, because of the end, how awful it was and how much assistance we needed. And you know, you just, and it is giving up control and allowing others that you don't even know to come into the room and to help you with things that are way bigger than you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to trust when you don't have a relationship with someone. I think that's really hard for me, and I think that's why I've had such issues with doctors over the years is I don't wanna just be the lunch meat line next, next, next. I wanna actually build that relationship together. I want you to know me so that you can better understand where I'm coming from and the reason for the decisions I want to make or not. So I think it's important that we build those relationships, and it makes it hard when you have to be forced into it. But that's kind of like what I was talking about earlier Some things you just have to embrace and then you have to trust that it will work out.
Speaker 1:And if it doesn't, then you have to move on and get the next person in to help, for example, or do the next best thing and get the next person in to help, for example, or do the next best thing. That's hard. It is hard to let go of control. It is hard to just accept what you don't want to accept. It really truly is.
Speaker 2:Nothing easy about it. Well, I think part of what we're saying here is that the problems that we're dealing with are just really big and the fear is equal to that. You know, the bigger the problem, the bigger the fear. The spirit of fear can cause a spiritual disconnect, and losing trust is something bigger than ourselves. But it's also feeling distant from God, sometimes, I think, or questioning or even having a spiritual peace.
Speaker 2:And I can remember when I was in treatment and we were to say you know who's your higher power? And people would. I can remember being in this circle it was really interesting people's higher powers and there were some that I would never have even thought about before and some said you know a rock star, or somebody even said a tree, and I have never forgotten that because I found it interesting that they steered away from the word God completely, completely, and it made me wonder where they were in their life that brought them to feeling that, the only thing that they could feel or trust in the brokenest time of their life. Because here they are completely broken, completely vulnerable, and they're saying who do you look up to for a higher power that you trust more than anything else? And they say a tree for a higher power that you trust more than anything else. And they say a tree. And it just made me wonder. You know, I felt really bad for them, but I didn't know if they even felt bad for themselves. I don't even know, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is really interesting. I mean, I can see wanting to be like a tree with strong roots. You grow, you bear fruit, for example. I could see wanting to be like that. But for that to be your higher power is really interesting.
Speaker 2:What I get out of 2 Timothy 1.7 is that the fear that I'm feeling is not from God, because God didn't do this and I know people can say that at times but he didn't do this and this still doesn't mean it's not there. You know, I didn't know what I was feeling was fear, like I said earlier, but it does make sense that that's probably what's going on, and I mean. Another thing that the book points out is that perception is reality and it asks this question have you considered and I underlined it, have you considered that you might be trapped in a self-made prison? And because that's kind of how I'm feeling at the moment. So now I have to figure out you know why, how and all the things I can't change what's happening. So I have to figure out what I have control over.
Speaker 2:Right, I have control over how I handle things. I have control over how I allow this to affect me. I have control over if I let it shut me down. I have control over who I allow in and who I do talk to. I do have control over that, ian, and not to just listen to my own thoughts, because our own thoughts sometimes can take us down the wrong paths and to do things like read this book. I don't think it fell into my hands by accident, because I don't believe in those kinds of things so I can get down on my knees more, pray more. You know I have control over those things. What about you and your mom or any other situations that you might be in or have been in? That fits this.
Speaker 1:Well, before I dive into that, I want to say I'm in the middle of reading Lisa Turkist's book. I Want to Trust you but I Don't, and it's really good, and I think that that should be the next one that you put on your list, because it's really helping me kind of untangle some of these issues you know, and I think, for you especially, it will help you get to maybe the root cause of why it is hard for you to trust new people, so I think that would be a really good book for you. As for me, I feel like that's what we've been talking about a lot through this. Just with my mom, I've been in situations like this, and I had to do because the situation I was referencing earlier in 2018 was when we had our stillborn baby, and no, I wouldn't want to relive that, but I also wouldn't want to give up what I learned from that, and that is that I don't have a whole lot of control over a lot of things. I have control over how I act and how I respond, like you were saying, but it is times like that that have taught me. I just need to ask then what do I need to learn from this, instead of asking the why question.
Speaker 1:So, with my mom and other difficult situations that I faced, and one that I'm just kind of in with one of my kiddos right now and it's not like a super big deal or anything, but it is trying to figure out what is the next best step, what is really going on with him, and do we need to get a stranger essentially, you know, involve someone that he could talk to? And I don't know, I don't know all of those answers just yet, but I do know that it at least is in my mind where we're thinking about it. We're trying to figure out the next best step. We're trying to like OK, we can control this, but we can't control that. How do we? How do we move forward? And I think that's probably the overall feeling of our podcast episode is you can feel all of these things, but you still have to move forward. You need respite, you still have to move forward and handle it. You can't control so many things, but yet you can control how you act or react to what is happening in your life. And I think maybe just taking the time to sit and process all of that is really, you know, and just working through all of those layers like an onion.
Speaker 1:Okay, if I don't trust you know, if this brought up, if this triggered me, why did it trigger me? Okay, now I have all these new people. Why don't I want to trust them? Oh, it's because at this point in my life, I did and I got burned. Oh, and it happened again at this point in my life. Okay, well, you know, trace those steps back to find out where it came from. Remind yourself. Okay, these are either true things that happened or these are just a thought. And okay, well, I'm older now and that's not going to happen again. I'm older and wiser now and I can work through all of this. Something and you know, I know you wanted to talk about writing, and that was one of the other things I was going to say is that can really be so helpful and therapeutic and also provide clarity.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh my gosh, when I write and I have a completely different perspective by the time I get to the end of the page. It happens every time. So you know we're also talking about what I said earlier. Our perceptions are reality, and when it's a lie and you have to find a way to replace the lie, it becomes a battle in your mind. I mean, it's a real thing? Yeah, it sure is. You can't change what you can't confront, and that is a big one, because the mind is fighting things that we can't see. Fighting things that we can't see and things that are tangible, are easy to fight or walk away from. But our minds are so powerful and when we are dealing with life's hurts and pains, our brains are leading us and it's something that we are. We're fighting something that we can't see.
Speaker 1:Gosh, that's so good. You cannot change what you cannot confront. I think that really sets into perspective for me some things of the past that I wish were different. But I don't want to confront them, not because I'm afraid to, but because I want to move past them and I don't, you know, I don't want certain people in my life anymore because when sometimes I see the true colors, it's like, yeah, I can still be civil, absolutely, but I'm not going to go back to trusting and wanting to form a closer bond again. But I really love that. That'll give me something else to think about. You cannot change what you cannot confront.
Speaker 2:I think that's so powerful That'll give me something else to think about. You cannot change what you cannot confront. I think that's so powerful. When I had first read that, you know it really hit me right where I'm living right now Because I think that some of these things are right. Part of the problem is because they're a hard thing for me to confront, and so the walls go up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do it too. I do it too, I do it too, there are lies.
Speaker 2:the book said that people have believed and lived by, you know, and it meant that they believed the lie and it affected their behavior because they believed it. For instance, the world was flat. People believed it. Some people still do, that's true. But they wouldn't even go out into the ocean because they believed that they would fall off the edge, you know. Or if you swallow gum or a watermelon, how about if you swallow a watermelon seed that you're going to grow one in your stomach?
Speaker 1:swallow a watermelon seed that you're going to grow one in your stomach. Yes, yes, hey.
Speaker 2:at this point I feel like that might be something we wish could happen. Yeah, here's one. How about if you sit too close to the TV and you'll go blind?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Or if you drink coffee too young, it'll stunt your growth. My parents would say that I never heard that one. But anyway, I mean those are all kinds of you know where we really believe a lie, just because, just because Because we were told from trusted people and that's how we live, yeah, so we make decisions based on the things that we know and the reality and the perception that we have about that reality. So I mean it's kind of interesting. But now you know, let's go back to reality. Well, I guess the reality as we now know it, the book asked was what if you buy into the lie that you were telling yourself? And then they say in the book, a lie believed as truth will affect your life, as if it were true? So if we believe a lie that's telling us you know in our head that we are no good or we can't, is that doubting God?
Speaker 1:Is that doubting God? That's a good question. I think just because of our human nature we do these things. I don't know if I can say that when I have believed a lie about myself never maybe I shouldn't say never I often I've not, often not even anything I could remember had anything to do with doubting God. It had everything to do with doubting myself.
Speaker 2:Okay, but if we do doubt ourselves, I guess that's saying to that we don't trust him to. You know, overpower our own doubts about who we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess that would be. I just never looked at it that way.
Speaker 2:I didn't either, not until I saw that In real bold letters in the book it said you are not who others say you are. You are who I say you are from God. So I really needed to hear that. As soon as I read that, I sat in it because I'm getting messages around me that I'm not very worthy and I am not appreciated. You know those are hard lessons, hard messages to hear. Can I ask you, Tina, what negative messages have you taken away from your childhood that have actually maybe infiltrated your life now and might replay in your head?
Speaker 1:Well, I wanted to say some of the things that you were just talking about are it's just, it's powerful, and I can. I wanted to talk about how my very first restorative yoga class I took after we had our stillborn son, several weeks, possibly even months, after that had happened, and why I took the class was I really needed to either get control of my thoughts or shut my brain off? And I thought that would be a good way to try to start and see, well, could I do it? Could I relax enough that I could actually think about just being in the moment in yoga class? And the truth is it took me a long time, but I absolutely can, and restorative yoga has become a part of my regular routine and self-care for years now.
Speaker 1:But I say that because I will never forget my very first restorative yoga class and there was a song on from. I can't think if it's India, irie or I can't think of the artist right now but it said you are not the choices other people made. Is that how the lyric goes? Something like that. In other words, it freed me from it right there and I sobbed In my very first yoga class.
Speaker 1:I was lying there sobbing because it instantly freed me of something I guess I had been carrying regarding my brother, to be honest. And so, right then, and there, you are not the things you know your family did, you are not the things your family did, and you know, don't listen to the voices in your head, and things like that and I thought, oh my gosh, I was carrying because he did it. That meant I did it and that when people looked at him one way, they looked at me that way too. And that's it freed me, right then and there, to not feel that way and to release that, because that's not the truth. His actions have nothing to do with me and that's not who I am. You know, go ahead, because whoever he is is him, but I am not that way. And it really did. It freed me.
Speaker 2:That's really powerful and I think I just needed to hear that just now because you know I have carried with me since my mom did what she did letting my sister go. She put her back into the system after my dad died and we really never saw her again until I was an adult, and I made that happen.
Speaker 1:India Irie, I Am Light. In case anyone wants to look that song up, it was India, irie. It's called I Am Light and it's beautiful and you should absolutely listen to it. I will.
Speaker 2:Those lyrics come from. But I just want to say you know that that's really powerful to me because when I went through those few things, really rough times as a kid, and then you take it to your adulthood and you're still owning it, like you just talked about, you know you're still owning it even though it wasn't yours to own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And to answer the question in finality that you had asked me what negative messages did I take away from my childhood that I might replay in my head? I don't know that I've ever talked about this before on the podcast, but there is someone who really hurt me deeply from a young age until my mid-20s when I feel like God was saying okay, you can handle this. Now You're going to have to deal with something hard. And I told this person I didn't understand his decisions when I was younger to give me up. Okay, if you will.
Speaker 1:So I'm talking about my biological dad and our relationship is repaired as best as it will be at this point and I don't want him to listen to this and be discouraged. I mean, I would just say that for the longest time I just replayed over and over and over in my head when he told me he laughed at me when I asked him that question and said maybe if you were younger asking me this, I would actually care, but you need to just be over it and I thought, wow, I thought that was not at all the answer that I was hoping for. I was hoping for a little bit of closure, to just ask it like where were you at at that time to make that decision and you know, to let me be adopted, which ended up in my favor. It wasn't that I was upset about it, I just had the question of why, right? Why did you?
Speaker 1:do that Right, and I never did get the answer. That was the answer I got, but that was something that played around in my head that was like, oh well, you're not good enough. Oh well, how stupid that you're this old and that you cared about this and you know. So that kind of thing that messed with me for a while. But again, I know when to and where to go and get the help and counseling that I need to work through I'm sorry, for I have to accept an apology I'll never get and I'm really proud of me for being able to do that. So those were some of the things.
Speaker 1:You know, I often fight the lonely here and there. I fight that I'm not good enough. I fight the perfectionism, which isn't something we talked about in this, but it's something that goes around in my head quite a bit. So I think we all have something we really do and I think really truly, I like to always go back to some sort of kindness when we talk in our podcasts and I think if we could just be extra kind to the people around us, it would make a world of difference, even if that just means smiling or holding a door or saying hi or a kind gesture. You just don't know what people are going through.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought about the answer to that question but all I could come up with was negative. I came up with, you know, you're no good, not smart, not worthy, never good enough to make it, and even though I have, which is interesting, and those types of words you know how visual both of us are told this story in this book that I found really interesting because he tricked his friend during a game and they were adults when this happened that you know they were playing this game and the guy was hiding in the closet and he went up and he pretended he locked it and he told his friend that he locked the closet. Well, what ended up happening is his friend never tried to even open it because he believed the lie. And how powerful is that? He said living your life by.
Speaker 1:It's funny. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but that is so interesting because I took away a positive from that. I didn't think of believing the lie. I thought how trustworthy that relationship was Interesting. That was my very first thought was how trusting.
Speaker 2:Well, he says. You know, living your life by a lie is like believing the door is locked when it isn't.
Speaker 1:So good it's, so good. I feel like we've left so much meat to chew on in this podcast, and I hope that that's going to resonate with you too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm talking about. When I was looking over this podcast, I really started in a different spot. But you know and I'm glad that we have as many end of it an hour later. I feel like I've grown, I feel like I've gotten something out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do too, and that's always our hope and goal. So feel free to reach out to either or both of us and let us know what our podcast had meant to you. We'd love to hear from you, anne. If you want to drop our email address, that'd be great, you can reach us at realtalkwithtinaandannecom.
Speaker 2:You can fill out the form that pops up and it will immediately notify us with your email and then we can put you in our contact information for all of our newsletters and mailings and things like that.
Speaker 1:You can find us on Facebook too. Information for all of our newsletters and mailings and things like that you can find us on Facebook too. So if you go to Real Talk, Tina and Anne, you will find us there. You'll see our picture that you see in the background right here. So it'll help you identify that. Yes, you have reached the right page.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, thank you for joining us this week and, as usual, there's purpose in the pain and there's hope in the journey, and we are doing this one step at a time with you, because this is a journey and we're not doing it alone, we're not doing it in isolation and we're trying to all grow together because there's a reason why that we're supposed to be in relationship. Absolutely, we're hardwired for it. I think we talked a to be in relationship. Absolutely, we're hardwired for it. I think we talked a lot about that on here today and being open to new things and growth and not putting up walls and allowing them to come down a little bit when we need to. So let's try to break those walls together. So, thank you for joining us this week and, as usual, we will see you next time.
