Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Tina and Ann met as journalists covering a capital murder trial, 15 years ago. Tina has been a tv and radio personality and has three children. Ann has a master's in counseling and has worked in the jail system, was a director of a battered woman's shelter/rape crisis center, worked as an assistant director at a school for children with autism, worked with abused kids and is currently raising her three children who have autism. She also is autistic and was told would not graduate high school, but as you can see, she has accomplished so much more. The duo share their stories of overcoming and interview people who are making it, despite what has happened. This is more than just two moms sharing their lives. This is two women who have overcome some of life's hardest obstacles. Join us every Wednesday as we go through life's journey together. There is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey.
Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Unmasking Brilliance: Living Boldly with ADHD in a Neurotypical World
Ron Souers joins us to explore how ADHD minds can transform perceived weaknesses into remarkable strengths through self-discovery, mindfulness, and acceptance. We examine the experience of navigating a neurotypical world with a neurodivergent brain and uncover practical strategies for harnessing ADHD's unique capabilities.
• ADHD is not a disorder to fix but a different way of processing that offers unique strengths
• Traditional workplace systems often fail neurodivergent individuals by forcing conformity rather than accommodating different thinking styles
• Masking ADHD symptoms requires double the energy, leading to burnout and mental health challenges
• Mindfulness-based strength practice helps identify and leverage your natural character strengths
• The connection between ADHD, depression and addiction stems from impulsivity and emotional dysregulation
• Movement breaks, journaling, grounding techniques and visual goal-setting provide practical ADHD management strategies
• Workplace accommodations like headphones and additional breaks are reasonable requests protected by law
• Self-acceptance and understanding the root causes of behaviors reduces shame and builds confidence
Visit youradhdguy.com to get a free e-copy of Ron's Self-Discovery Journal for Adults with ADHD or learn about his coaching program, the Connection Blueprint.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. Today's episode is one I've been itching to do. As someone who lives with ADHD, I know what it's like walking through a world built with rulers and straight lines when your brain is a kaleidoscope. But what if the very things that make us feel broken are actually the things that make us brilliant? My guest today is someone who gets it on every level.
Speaker 1:Ron Sowers is an ADHD advocate. The voice behind Don't Mind Me, I Just have ADHD dives into the experience of living with ADHD, addiction and depression, and he's the author of the Self-Discovery Journal which I have right here because I ordered it for adults with ADHD. Yeah, he's a consultant who helps businesses create neurodiverse, friendly environments and he supports employees navigating ADHD with tools, compassion and real-world solution. And he helps ADHD individuals who struggle with depression and addiction and help discover purpose on the other side. And he just might be a rapper too, from what I understand. So Ron is proof that us ADHDers might have a hard time with our to-do list, but we can have executive dysfunction and still execute our purpose. So thank you so much, ron, for being here today.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, that was very flattering and you know it's an honor to be here and share this space with you.
Speaker 1:And you've clearly turned your ADHD into a mission and a passion for helping others, but I'd love to go back to the beginning. And a passion for helping others, but I'd love to go back to the beginning. What was life like before pre-diagnosis and what led you to understand that your brain was different and that you needed help navigating the world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was quite the journey. The first time that I realized that I may have ADHD was like I was about to get fired from my job and, you know, I was like running into stuff, I couldn't slow down. I um was damaging company property, injuring myself, and I was, you know, unfortunately, I had people in my life that were telling me that you know, maybe you need to seek help about this, like they were already telling me you need to slow down my whole life and I just thought they just didn't know what they were talking about. And so this finally, I finally started to listen. Out of fear of losing my job, I went and saw my primary care.
Speaker 2:In that instance, you know, I was like I'm desperate for help, like I need, I can't slow down, I've tried everything, I'm not trying to lose my job, I was just just everything on the table and she kind of didn't, but she still gave me a list of psychologists and therapists. So I went through that list and I was like just calling and calling and just wanting that help, like, and I finally was able to meet the therapist that I'm working with today and, um, yeah, in that journey, like one of the first things that he said to me was like yeah, you have ADHD, but this can be used as a strength. And in that moment I was like I felt broken. I felt like.
Speaker 2:I spent my whole life thinking I was normal, that I was intelligent, that I was smart and you know. But there was like so much evidence, you know, for the ADHD. So it was like this middle ground of somewhat accepting it and somewhat denying it. And, you know, because there'd be days where I just didn't feel like I had it and was beginning which was to write down your thoughts Because I had trouble at work just standing around, you know, because I felt like you need to be productive, I would get bored really easily and like I would get upset when other people were talking, when we could be doing work, and this wasn't the place for that, like for this conversation, and, like you know, so I would get like angry about not being able to work and, frustrated, I would get a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2:So what he said is like just bring in a journal into work and like write out your thoughts or draw your thoughts or draw like or draw pictures and like you know, that really helped because it was like it helped me to understand that you know these thoughts need to come out and there it's better for them to come out on paper than for me to like actually say them.
Speaker 2:You know so. And one of the other things that he taught you know, told me was like if you drive, like when you're going to work, like you're going to be taken the long way, like when you're going to work, like you're going to be taken the long way.
Speaker 2:So I actually took that literally and went the long way to work, which ended up being very therapeutic, you know, and helped me to gradually slow down, like yeah, I do, you know, it still pops up from now and again. But one of the biggest things that has really helped me was further along, when he was like saying question the thoughts or put like something in. There is like if I'm in a rush, I usually ask myself what's the hurry? What's you left early Like why are you rushing to work still?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really great question. I think that I do that too. I mean, I know that I do. Every single thing that I do is like I have to be busy, I have to be doing 10 things at once, and I don't understand when other people say that they're bored or you know they are standing around. I'm the exact same way, so it's just, I guess, a part of who we are, but I don't know. You use the word. You know that you weren't normal.
Speaker 2:Is that the way you really see it Is that we's not going to just tell me like nope, you have to stay, you're not good.
Speaker 2:Like he's just going to allow me to do what I need to do. You know, that's that's what, you know, I find really about him is like he's like more about listening to the patient and not prescribing medication. You know, even though when I, when I went back because I had taken on a new role and I was driving a forklift and and moving, transporting dangerous chemicals around, and I had ended up, you know, doing the same pattern and like going too fast, hitting, I hit, like I took out a reinforcement pole, a concrete reinforcement pole, and like punctured drums with the fork tips and like with chemicals in it, and like it was just, it was a mess and it was a lot of stress, um added stress onto what I was doing and and so I went back to see him in the middle of that process saying like yeah, how can I slow down, like I really need this, like I'm taking this ADHD seriously, I haven't fixed it. Like it's not something that you know that.
Speaker 2:I've done. I've looked at it like in more long term. I need to invest in this. Above me while I was pulling the forks back down, and even though it wasn't like that significant to me, it was a sign. It was like that straw that broke the camel's back, because I was really trying my best to slow down and pay attention.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was just and it still happened. So I was so mad at myself, so frustrated, scared, that I was going to lose my job because, like the situation that it came with it, you know, I decided that in that, pretty much that day, that I needed to step down from that role and go back to my previous role with the company which they were open to, role with the company which they were open to. And you know that took a lot of strength and humility and to do that and I definitely had it was rough those first couple of weeks because my mind's like did you do the right thing? And what are other people going to think? And it's not about those other people, it's about, like me, keeping my job or me keeping my sanity and, honestly, it was one of the best things that's ever happened to me Because if that didn't happen, who knows where I would be?
Speaker 2:I don't really want to know, but I know I wouldn't be here on your podcast, I wouldn't have written that book, I wouldn't have found this calling that. You know I feel like so many men and women are in the same boat. You know that they're trying to do their best and they don't even know what's wrong with them and don't even think that there's something wrong with them, because that's hard. That's a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 1:I think that ADHD is a term that people throw around a lot of times when they're talking about kids who have a lot of energy, or you know, because, like me, I felt when I first found out about it, like this was something that I grew out of or can grow out of.
Speaker 2:It's the way that your brain is developed early on in childhood, so it's and it comes from stress Like I feel like all people which are neurodivergent are actually just sensitive people you know, more highly sensitive people that just had a lot of stress or trauma during that time and it affected the way that their brains developed.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So with ADHD it presents in adults a little differently than children because like children it's more physical, it's a more like. You can see the symptoms much more. With adults the symptoms are still kind of the same, but the adaptations have taken place, have taken place. So it's like because of the shame and the guilt and and whatever you know the system or their parents have given them and they've received, they, they've decided to mask and become more of a, you know, socially acceptable person because they don't want to, they don't want to go through that humiliation or that pain that when they they did show who they were, were emotionally, or they're running around, you know, pitching a fit. You know, like I used to run around in like department stores and pitch a fit. And you know, because, like I, had all these emotions going on, I'm a kid, my kids are supposed to be running around and free and enjoying life and especially in today's society, it's like we're pushing kids, we're putting so much pressure on kids to perform and to be successful at earlier and earlier ages.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's no time to enjoy the life of that with the lack of responsibilities, like you're never going to go back, to be able to go back to that, and once, once you cross it, cross this threshold, you know, and sometimes it's just like, yeah, I'm glad that I have these responsibilities, but there's days where I wish I just didn't have anything to do. You know where I could just unwind, listen to the birds, you know, go on a trip or whatever, you know, and that's something that I'm working towards. But, like with with adults with ADHD it's it shows up like you might see more fidgeting or you know somebody interrupting you while you're talking because, like for them and for me in my experience was I wanted to get that out before I forgot it absolutely like it was important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I can't. I'm sorry if you're talking, but like, but I don't. I don't see it as rude, I just see it as like no, not everybody's like this. That's that really made a huge change is like everyone's brain.
Speaker 1:We think differently and that's a great thing, you know.
Speaker 2:So like especially when we're driving, it's like why is that person doing that? Well, maybe they just their thought process is totally different.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:It helps me deal with like other people and understand that. You know, even if they have ADHD, they're all there. There's still a spectrum of it.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that is the key word, isn't it? Yeah it really is. And I don't think people understand that same thing with autism. I mean, people just have a picture of what autism is, but they don't. They miss the spectrum of it, and it's just because, I have autism too.
Speaker 1:So I mean I'm constantly trying to explain that to people, what the word spectrum means For ADHD, for me. I mean I normally have like 37 tabs open, you know, and it's kind of a superpower I think. But I do bounce from things like I'll be writing and then I'll go clean and then I'll read and then I'll create, and it keeps me energized for the most part, but some might find that it's distracting, I think, but honestly it really does help my brain focus. Now, I'm not going to lie, there's times I get derailed, but most days it really does work for me and I really I don't know. I mean people all the time are asking me how are you getting all this done? Now, some days I get done less than others, but I do think my ADHD is like a superpower that helps motivate me and get all this stuff done, and I'm not really sure how much I see it as a flaw.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and nowadays I'm happy with who I am. I understand myself on a deeper level. I have a direction to look, you know, and I have boundaries. You know that I try my best to like maintain inside, but it's okay to go outside the lines, the lines, the thing that you're talking about with the superpower, is like yeah, it's like we have strengths, we all have strengths.
Speaker 2:Certain, you know, being more sensitive is a strength, because we're able to empathize on a deeper level, we're able to have compassion, and I believe almost every neurodivergent person is more justice sensitive.
Speaker 2:So they like when there's injustice in the world, we feel more for it and we're more likely to speak up and say something about it, especially if we know how to do it. That's why I'm huge on what I coach, which is being more pro-social, because, like, if you can't like, we normally don't speak up for ourselves when there's an opportunity to do that. You know, it's like explaining the situation and like how we feel and expressing that, how we feel in that moment, because feelings are important. They tell us a lot of things, but a lot of us don't know how to read those feelings or, even worse, we just ignore them and push them down. We're a being that was designed to feel, so it's like if a guy feels sad or scared, it's like, oh, we're not supposed to talk about that because that's just not something that we're supposed to feel, but yet we're feeling it you know.
Speaker 2:So, like it's like now I feel bad about myself because I feel this way, because I shouldn't be, but yet I am, you know. So it's like the only way to really comprehend that without going insane is to say well, I'm a problem, this is a problem, I'm the problem. So the only way I can fix that problem is to is to not do that. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. But I do think that people with ADHD, with a lot of our, you know, with feelings and things like that, I think that we feel so much and we can see so much and we can see patterns and we can see, you know, we can solve problems that maybe other people can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Especially with what I'm understanding from autism is like you're able to see patterns very easily that other people can't.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think so too, with ADHD and a lot of neurodivergent people. I mean, we can catch things, we can scan the room, we can see things that a lot of people can't see. And we also are very empathetic people, and I don't care what anybody says. Lots of times I think neurodivergent people aren't empathetic, but I think that we are more so neurodivergent.
Speaker 2:People aren't empathetic, but I think that we are more so. Yeah, and I, and I believe that's true, but it's just. You have to be able to be in touch with that and have that growth and and and that acceptance of who you are.
Speaker 2:First, because if you're you're in a constant state of being broken, you still have that empathy, but it's not as like, it's not as powerful as it can be and with, you know, ADHD, there's a lot of creativity in there, there's a lot of that emotional, like you're able to think outside the box and see things in a different way especially when it comes to problem solving. So it's like focusing on those things. There's a there's a drawback to that. Creativity is like you have to be able to rein it in, because if you, yeah, you can do all these things, but finishing it and follow through are going to burn you out.
Speaker 2:So it's like you can't sign up for a thousand things, even though it's all creative and it all can be done and it's all great. You've got to be able to. You know, for your own sanity and for your own health, you've got to be able to, like, prioritize those things and say, well, is this good, is this getting me towards my goal, or is this something that I can put away for later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I walk around with a checklist. I have to figure that out sometimes. Why do you think most traditional systems just don't work well for ADHD brains? Because you know, most systems and institutions are designed to operate one way and we interpret and process another way. So how does this work?
Speaker 2:Well, I think most systems are designed to, you know, repress us and conform us. You know, especially in the United States, and that is not. That is such a weak system. So it doesn't really work for anybody. It only works. It's only easier for other people to do because they don't have these large emotions to deal with the part of their brain that is developed. More developed is that that connects better with that brain.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't mean that those systems are good. I feel like open systems that give you movement and, you know, allow for questioning back and forth between, between, like a teacher, or between a boss and a worker. You know, to understand, like how can we work together to create a better environment? That, you know, feels more supportive, feels more inclusive, feels like you can come to the table too, no matter if you got the experience or not, because we, you know, like it may not, that idea may not be accepted, but the fact is like you're missing out on so many great ideas that could be implemented and they don't have to be really big. Right, If you open up that door and like people feel like they can come to you.
Speaker 1:That is so important to open up that dialogue in any kind of system that we're in. And I had an experience one time and I mean not just one time, but this is one example- of it where I think that the service industry actually needs to be trained everywhere.
Speaker 1:If you're dealing with people, you need to be trained in neurodivergence, because I was in LA at a coffee shop and I just ordered my coffee and, as an autistic individual who doesn't oftentimes look at people, because when I'm in a very closed space or whatever, I can't hear you and talk to you at the same time and look at you at the same time, it's kind of a thing so I just I guess I was looking somewhere else and I ordered and she said, excuse me, are you talking to me? And I went, yeah, and she said, well, I didn't know that because you sure weren't looking at me and I just thought, wow, I mean, is that where we are? That people are just going to judge, because there are so many people with invisible differences or disabilities and there's you don't know who's standing across from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's about meeting people where they are instead of meeting them in judgment. I think that they should be trained in that.
Speaker 2:No, and that's huge. I mean everyone really should be trained in neurodivergent behavior or you know mental health on a deeper level. You know, especially in the workplace, any type of workplace.
Speaker 2:I feel like supervisors especially need that training the most, because that's it usually trickles down from the top down, you know, and it can, like leaders that lead by example with empathy are some of the best leaders out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be difficult to have these private companies to adopt this, but I believe there needs to be something done. There are businesses out there that provide that and do an excellent job at teaching those things, but I believe that some of their systems are a bit complex and it just feels like overwhelming. If you could do that in like a more simplistic way, you know, especially, you know, for those companies that want to do it. And then for me, like I personally am leaning more towards this is like there needs to be some like accountability for these companies that are just being neglectful of other people and and these neurodivergent workers that are working, coming like like, say me, getting on that fork truck, like they should have at least had a screening or a questionnaire that said do you have ADHD? And like where are you at on that spectrum, so that at least they did their part in doing that, because, like to me, that's mental health negligence, like you're putting someone in a position to do something dangerous that could not only hurt them or hurt other people.
Speaker 2:You know especially driving heavy machinery. You know how many accidents happen in America on the highways. People may have a neurodivergency, especially ADHD, and they're just trying to rush because they don't have, like, this ability to slow down. These companies need to be able to do that, you know, like part of their screening process. It just needs to get better.
Speaker 1:I was wondering about, because you said that there was a cost to ignoring neurodivergence in the workplace. Is that what you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're looking at now you're taking these people that you see are burdens, that you see are like outliers or they're just problematic you know.
Speaker 2:So you don't wanna. The best thing you can do is do your best to deal with them, that's it. You're not trying to understand them, you're not trying to talk to them, you're not trying to see them as human beings that need that have help. And when, when you start to understand them like if you give somebody, like you're at the time of day, and you work with them and you work through their issues?
Speaker 2:and your understanding and you do do that to the best of your ability that worker will stay with your company. They'll do so much more for your company especially when you allow them to be themselves. There's a cost there, like when it comes to like competing and having that competitive edge. You need people that think outside the box, need people that are creative, that come, and we are those people and you probably have everybody that you need already on your workforce. You just need to my.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that kids, not just teachers, need more training, but peers. If they had like a one on one, you know, you take a typical and you match them up with a neurotypical and you have to be friends with them and you have to figure it out, and you have classes where you learn about neurodivergence when they're that young, I mean I just think that it's really important to do that. I did have another question about the workplace. If you are at an interview and I've always wondered this do you tell people your future employer from the beginning that you have ADHD? Or do you think that you should like slay the interview, go a couple months, you know, just rock it and then gradually start telling them? You know what, I have ADHD and I might need some accommodations.
Speaker 2:Depends on the individual and you know where they're at because. But for me I would say it from the beginning Like I want them to know upfront that you know I don't see it as a problem. But these are some of the things, some of these issues that I can, because by law, companies are required to give you reasonable accommodations.
Speaker 2:They don't have to like build a quiet room for you or whatever, but they can allow you to have headphones and allow you to have extra breaks if you need those things, you know, especially when it comes to burnout you know other things like that. You know that are reasonable accommodations. The only caveat is some some companies will do require a medical, a doctor, saying that you do have whatever you have. Um, and you can even do that without having adhd.
Speaker 2:Like say, if you don't want to like disclose that you have adhd, say that you just talk about the symptoms to say, well, I struggle with this and get a doctor's note if you need to, because, like they're going to find out later on down the line. Anyways, that's where a lot of the burnout comes from. Is like masking who you are is like you got to do the same job that everyone else is doing and then you got to add on that that behavior. You have to do the same amount of work but double the amount of energy, because you're sitting there masking all day long and pretending that you know and trying to figure out a problem.
Speaker 2:You know that most people or other people don't have a problem with you know what I'm saying. So it's. And then you feel, then you've got to overcome that feeling of guilt of like, oh, I'm not smart enough or I'm not as good as them, because you're all automatically going to compare yourself to other people.
Speaker 1:I mask all day when I'm out in the world. That's what I do, and it is exhausting. And it's hard to let people see what, who you really are.
Speaker 2:No, I totally get that, but it's like it's so freeing for me just to not care if, like you know, especially, but it comes from myself and that acceptance is like you know, um, you know, I beat myself a lot up, a lot because I forgot something that I normally remember.
Speaker 2:Like how could you forget? You're an idiot? But now it's like I've come to that acceptance, like well, you forgot that happened, right, you know that's supposed to. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often, like you're actually doing good. So when you like switch, switch that mindset of like okay, this is who I am, this is how my brain is, there's nothing wrong with that. These are the things that I do well, that you know other people wish they had you know, like that you know other people wish they had.
Speaker 2:You know, like, like I can, I can make my own business. I'm creative, like I've just got to work on the follow through. Like that, justice, sensitivity for me is like such a passion and a drive that it's like I want to spend the rest of my life trying to do something about that.
Speaker 2:So I've already got my purpose you know a lot of people's purpose in life is like the thing that they look for and they think it's money, because it's like society tells them that they got to be rich, they got to have a position of power, they got to have a wife and X amount of kids and this amount of cars and like you get all those things and even studies say those things. Like that people aren't any happier. The amount that you're like relatively happy is like around seventy five, eighty thousand dollars. Anything above that doesn't really affect, doesn't move the needle.
Speaker 1:Like you're saying. I mean purpose is the reason why I do this and this is what makes me happy. And ADHDers have the most nonlinear way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, empath.
Speaker 1:And nothing is in a straight line which allows us to have this intuitive way of thinking. And you've tapped into the creative minds that we have. How would you help someone with ADHD tap into that creativity to be able to take their life to the next level?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just thinking about where you would like to be in the next five years. What would that dream look like for you? This is something that helped me in the beginning was, like you know. So, really visualize what, what you would let, what that life would look like, what, what you'd be able to do and then create, like you know, um and this is something that, um, I got from this book it's like pat flynn, will it fly you?
Speaker 2:You take a piece of paper like this and blank piece of paper and you divide it into quadrants and then you put in the four quadrants that like of your life that you care the most about. Like one is like mental health, you know. The other is like physical health and family and and, and, like you know, finances. You really write out what, what that would look like in each, each quadrant, you know. So you really write out what that would look like in each quadrant, you know. So you really define your future and you kind of like you work backwards to figure out how are you going to get to that goal. Like, is each step that I'm taking now leading me towards that goal? It doesn't have to be a straight, straight away, but am I getting better, you know, and figure out which coagulants the best. The most important for me that was the mental health that was.
Speaker 2:I was like ADHD and you know that developed into a podcast, uh, about ADHD in the workplace. So it's like really finding out like what you want in life, where you would, where your dream would be, because, like you can, you can build your life around that dream.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you about dream making. You know, because sometimes we can feel so beat down and you talk about that with depression and things like that and so many times and I know this for a fact that there are people out there that really would not have thought that I would have been successful at all and I really always I've created vision boards. I've pictured, like you said, it's very visual for us. I think we need that visual and I think it's really important that we just stay focused and not hear those outside things, because so many people can be our worst enemies Our own definitions of ourselves can be our own worst enemy and not allow those things to infiltrate who we really are and be able to allow our creativity to become this amazing person that I know that we were destined to be. So you know, how do people with ADHD stay on that track, stay focused on it with all that noise around them and be able to reach the dreams that they want?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like one of the most important is the people in your life Like either have somebody that's aligned with your goals and you can work together or hire a coach, like an ADHD coach or whatever coach that you feel is going to put you in that spotlight, because no one's going to motivate you the way somebody else that is being paid to motivate you Because you can't motivate yourself like that way you. Then there's going to be those doubts. You know you've lived your whole life persevering through those doubts. Those doubts just don't don't disappear. You know, if you've had a few days, or you know a couple months, of like, good vibes and your mindset shifts, it's, it's going.
Speaker 2:You know your brain's thought this way for so long and you've got to work through that. And you know it's, it's just part of that, that mechanism that protects you. So you've got to have something that that can pull you up when you're down, when you get down, because life is going to happen and those doubts are going to come. You know I still get doubts to this day. You know they show up, usually in the morning and they're like I don't know if you should be doing this. This is a lot of work and like you're not seeing like immediate success or like something that you know we define as success in the moment, whether that's like making a lot of money or getting a lot of clients or whatever that looks like. No, the success is like you did better than yesterday, like you got to look at what you did do versus what you're not doing, and coaches can really help you bring that, bring that part, that bring that side of you out, that you can have more confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1:I just want to go here for a second because this is really interesting. You know, we both have our podcasts, we're both ADHD and we're having a regular conversation. And you know, I mean, how do we do this, how do people do this and stay in the conversation instead of get our minds mixed up with everything that are going on in the room? But you and I are having a conversation, we're able to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about active listening, you know. So it's something that you know takes practice and takes time, but like the best way that you can do that is well, there's two different ways, but like the easier way would be if I want to engage in that conversation and what you're saying is like I need to pay attention to it.
Speaker 2:So I can like, so you can give an active loop of feedback, so like, if you said something and like I need to verify it by saying, okay, let me let me like state a couple points and then ask of what they said and then ask, okay, am I getting that right? You know so they'll, they'll explain it back to you if, like, you got it right or you know what you missed. So you get kind of like even a better explanation and even be honest, like say look explanation. And even be honest, like say, look, my brain was somewhere else. You know it does that I have ADHD. Could you please repeat what you just said? Like I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore you, because people aren't going to get mad that you didn't hear them if you tell them why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're constantly trying to figure out workarounds in everything that we do in this world. So I mean that's really good and because we have no choice but to figure out ways to function in systems that were never made for us to begin with, honestly. So we're always trying to kick in that creativity and try to figure it out and use that intuitive nature that I think that we have. Let's be honest, the typical world is not going to bend, it's just not going to. Oh yeah, I want to take a moment and talk about your book, because I think that your book really is bringing out some of that stuff. It's getting into that underlying piece of who we are as ADHD individuals.
Speaker 1:The Self-Discovery Journal for Adults with ADHD because, you know, it looks at the tools for those of us who want to uncover who we really are. And what I love most is how it's designed for us to go at our own pace. That's perfect and no pressure and honest self-reflection. And you've created prompts that don't just scratch the surface. They invite us to go where we probably normally wouldn't even go. One thing that really stood out to me is how you flipped the script and you kind of touched on this earlier in your way of thinking, which I like. Instead of asking what's wrong with me, you take the blame off of yourself and you place it on where did this come from? And I think that that's genius, because it removes the blame and invites curiosity instead of shame. So can you talk more about that thought process and designing this journal and why you think self-talk is such a huge and it's underrated?
Speaker 2:and we all have it. It's just so hidden, it's buried by the system that we're in. So it was like really opening that up and you know, the thought process behind it was like I started to see these details of me that were, you know, emotionally, traumatically based. You know I wanted to to to give people an opportunity to be able to, you know, explore that in a way it didn't require you to just read a book. It was like here's, here's somewhere where you can write it down, take your time with it, come back to it if you need to. You know so that they because once I started doing that with myself, like it unlocked so many things that I thought were true about myself, that were actually something that were just stories that I was telling to myself.
Speaker 2:It's understanding that narrative and breaking that narrative to a degree that you can start to be like, start to question, like some of the things that you do, and start to see value in other things, like it's not me being broken, the blame's not on me, it's just where, where do you think this started? It's about getting to the root cause of every problem, like every, and a lot of us don't look at the emotional aspect of it and the fact that it happened in childhood, like how could that affect me today, Like that was so long ago and, honestly, like there's so many things that still affect me today and if I don't, if I'm not've never really thought about that, I mean, I know, my brain was born this way.
Speaker 1:I know my brain was wired this way for as long as I can remember, but I had a lot of trauma too, so and I mean it did affect me. And one of the questions in your book that really hit me right where I live, I guess, is when I feel intense guilt, is it about a current moment or an old wound? And I, just as soon as I read that, I went ouch, I was like, yeah, I mean that's what you're talking about here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about that, because all of us experience trauma in one way or another, and trauma a lot.
Speaker 2:Most people, including myself, they thought that trauma was physical, was it was like, or an extreme loss, like a death, sudden death. And yes, those are traumatic, but that's not the only traumas that are out there and some of them are smaller and they just don't register. Neglect is a trauma. Neglect can actually be more traumatic than a physical blow or whatever. You know, I dealt with a lot of neglect growing up from my dad and that really affected me and my relationships moving forward and the person that I became so and there was like, even still like cause I could.
Speaker 2:I was always trying to make my dad proud of me. He would never notice, um, I don't know if he he just didn't have the capability of saying something or didn't think that he could because of his upbringing. There was always a resentment there because of that. But even now it's like anybody that talks down to me or says things about me that you know are negative, like I really took to heart and it angered me to that point and like because it went back to that me not being good enough for my dad, you know, and so I was able to see that as like wow, that's what, why it triggers me, not that it shouldn't, but it shouldn't have that like profound effect on me it sounds like it fueled you to want to be different than your dad yeah, and and even even changing the dynamic with my like, I love my dad and you know um, it's just we can't communicate a lot.
Speaker 2:So one thing that I did was I told my mom about it, because that that was that was affecting me to a degree Cause, like I want, I still want to have that connection with my dad. But I understand like he's so isolated Like dad. But I understand like he's so isolated like he rarely answers the phone, like only when I text him will he answer and it's usually me initiating it they were. They gave me the suggestion to to send this text. That said, I haven't heard from you in a while.
Speaker 2:It'd be nice to hear from you you know so and then I put like a a little smiley face emoji on the end To make it light, and he ended up, you know, saying that he'd call and he did call and we had a good conversation. So it was like being even being open for myself, if I want that and here's an opportunity. You know there was still some fear there that you know he wouldn't respond to that, but at least I'm doing everything that I can to pull him in to this relationship because you know he's part of my family.
Speaker 2:You know I'll accept him wherever he's at, but I would like for him, you know us to try to repair that in some way plus I feel, like he's got answers for me that you know I can ask about his childhood once, once he's once I've gotten to a place so I can figure more more about me and him, you know, and and hopefully maybe that'll open the door for him to do some exploring, but when he's's ready, I'm not going to. Just I wanted to ask that. In that case I was like no, this is too soon.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that we own so much that isn't ours. And you know, shame is such a big thing and how we internalize things like that. And it's this balancing act of not trusting ourselves but allowing others to have power over us too when we're trying to navigate the world, and we need that at times. So, trying to get a coach while you're trying to figure out hey, I didn't trust my dad, how am I going to trust this person in front of me? But I need somebody to help me navigate the world. I mean, I think that that's something that I think that we all have to deal with too. I have external brains that's what I call them and there is so much of my past that affects me not being able to trust people to allow them to help me navigate the world. But I do need that. I mean, have you ever gone there in your life, like you know, with the trust and not being able to really go to people and advocate because of the past?
Speaker 2:I mean it does have a slight effect, but like I just, I just got to trust the process and that's my phrase. Yes, and go through through it with. You know, no matter what happened. It's this thing called benefit of the doubt, you know. So giving people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise, it's like a trust. That's more that people generally want to be good, they generally want to be happy and they generally want to be free. And that's where I see more people is like they're just carrying around this trauma.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of strategies out there for us to be able to cope better in the world. I talked a little bit about the movement breaks that I would have, where I would clean, go and write and then get up, maybe get on the treadmill, then I'd go read, you know, and those movement breaks really did help me stay fresh with my brain. So are there other strategies that people can use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just, you know like getting up and moving around is an amazing one If you can like go on a walk, or you know like, especially in the morning, you know when you get up, because getting out in nature is totally like, especially if you can get outside your head and try to be in the moment where you're like I'm not going to think about what I have to do, I'm not going to think about what I didn't do, I'm going to try to be right here listening to the birds and like feeling the wind and like that's kind of you know weird how like the wind just touches you and like we don't even notice it.
Speaker 2:And but when we we come back because there's so much in the present moment, especially when you go around nature it's like so refreshing. It's no matter where I'm at. I got always like breathing in the air and knowing like I've got everything that I need right here with me like that I will ever need to have.
Speaker 1:Well, you're touched on grounding techniques. I mean grounding techniques are amazing, Like I. I forget exactly how it is, but it's something like I see five things, I smell four things, I whatever. And you like you know you felt the wind on you. It's something that's bringing you back to center.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, whatever, and you, like you know you felt the wind on you. It's something that's bringing you back to center. Yeah, definitely, and with the breathing too, it's it's. There's such a power to the breath, you know. Or, or, if you need, take a break and like, give yourself like a snack. You'll be able to scroll on TikToks for five minutes. You know, set a timer for that, you know. But don't like start out with that because you might get distracted. But give that to yourself as a gift.
Speaker 1:I personally, I take notes all day and have reminders, because if I don't, I can have the most amazing thought, but then I can have another thought which makes me lose the amazing, amazing thought that I just had. So I really do, I carry my phone and I'm like I take notes whenever I think of something. I'll even do that at night sometimes and have those reminders too, and it could appear that we have a bad memory. I think at times because I'm like OK, now where did I put that? But it's because I'm not even thinking about where I put that when I was putting that there.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm thinking of 50 other things and I'm not really in the present. So I like you constantly talking about being in the present. I think that that's really important. I actually have a friend that took medicine to slow down her brain, to quiet her brain, and she's very ADHD and she went off of it because she liked the noise in her brain.
Speaker 1:And she just she couldn't stand how quiet that really was. So I found that interesting. But I think that having that many tabs open, like I did talk about, even though it can appear like I'm forgetful, it does really help me function and keep myself fresh and my creative juices flowing all the time.
Speaker 2:I believe it's just the sheer volume of thoughts and we just don't have the capacity for the amount of creativity that our brain creates.
Speaker 1:Well, what is mindfulness-based strength practice and what is that in action?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's something that's like one of the core tenets of what I coach, and mindfulness-based strengths practice is mindfulness with character strengths. So we all have this idea of character strengths. That could be forgiveness, that could be creativity, social intelligence there's 24, in this particular practice, there's 24 character strengths you know and you have some that are signature strengths, so they're like the top five or the ones that you easily access. So for me, that would be creativity, critical thinking, love of learning and forgiveness and honesty. So like that shows up in me as a person. That kind of defines who I am. Like you can, you can start to see that and and other people, um, like you, you're, you're creative, like I can see that, and it's about strength spotting and other people you know and you persevere as well. So that's one of you, one of the strengths that comes, comes to life. It's being able to spot those things in a mindful way. So if you're just focused on strengths, you might tend to overuse them. A lot of people just either overuse or underuse their strengths.
Speaker 2:So you can kind of see the strengths in other people. That person shows a good leadership. Well, they're showing leadership, but they're very overusing it because they're bossing people around and think they need to control things. So they have that strength there. It's just rubbing people the wrong way. So if they added more mindfulness into that, you know they'd be able to adjust that and it's also bringing that into the mindfulness as well. So it's like bringing that curiosity into mindfulness, which is almost a core tenant of it. But you can also bring forgiveness in there.
Speaker 2:How can I forgive myself for acting that way? You know, how can I be forgive others? You know that guy that cut me off in traffic. Maybe you know just thinking of myself and like people make mistakes all the time. Maybe he's got somewhere to go, maybe he got up late. You know it's like you know he's, he's just trying to get to where he needs. Maybe he's got somewhere to go. Maybe he got up late. You know, it's like you know he's just trying to get to where he needs. Maybe he's got ADHD and he just can't help himself.
Speaker 1:It sounds to me, because I didn't know about this, but it sounds to me like it's about meeting people right where they are instead of meeting wanting people to know where you are and you know, but understanding where you both are, and without judgment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's about developing a relationship with yourself and then that relationship, because when you put out strengths into any environment, you know it tends to grow and radiate out into the other people. Because when you start to compliment people on their strengths, people love to hear compliments, especially when how they're showing up as, like man, you're doing a really good job, or it took a lot of courage to say the things that you said, or you're man, you just showed real leadership there and I got wanted to let you know. It means a lot to me that you've showed up as a team player as well, because that's a real leader, so important.
Speaker 1:People just want to be validated. They want to be recognized. It's so simple. I do want to make this a little bit more personal right now, because you do talk about ADHD, individuals with addiction and depression. So I was wondering if you could talk more about that with your own story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, depression has been something that's been with me my whole life. You know, I really thought for a long time that depression was just like a fear and it is, but it was. It minimizes, you know, a lot of these words we minimize like I'm just, I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling stressed out, you know when, when there's actually something going on there deeper. So with the depression, like I feel like it came from that same place of like neglect and like not being worthy of love. So I would always seek out love in in different ways, like that weren't really love, it was just either lust or self-gratification. So it would be, you know, like I would have to have a relationship, an intimate relationship, in order to feel like I was being loved, like I was you know and I. But it was never enough because it wasn't an actual the love that I actually needed.
Speaker 2:Through mindfulness I was able to. So I was getting. I got pretty depressed because people weren't calling me and checking up on me or texting me to see how I am. It really affected me because I was reaching out and it just seemed like I wasn't getting that in return. So it just felt like, oh, that's my value there People don't really care because I'm not worthy of being cared about. Well, I'm practicing mindfulness right now. You know I am worthy that I am, so that I do self-love and I do care about myself because I'm continuing this practice and I'm trying to get better with it and with me. Depression is about, or any feeling really is like, not trying to stop it, not trying to avoid it, not trying to push it down, but just sitting there and exploring that emotion and where it's come from, or just pushing through and doing the activity or the thing that I don't want to do when I'm depressed.
Speaker 1:Is that what you do when you coach people is help them try to find the root?
Speaker 2:Yeah, try to, you know, and not all the time it's going to be, there's going to be an answer, but sometimes there will be. But it's about that exploration. It's about sitting in that emotion and being okay and not giving it the power.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah, Not giving it the power which, by the way, with addiction. What about addiction? Is there a connection between ADHD and addiction? Is there a connection?
Speaker 2:between ADHD and addiction. Yeah, I feel like they're very, very closely linked. There's a lot of overlying attributes, so like one is like the impulsivity.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of impulsive behavior with a lot of addicts and that comes from and that's also with ADHD, because we want, we have these strong emotions and we want to have this something to get us out of there, and we don't have that, that um prefrontal cortex that's developed. So when a thought pops in, we just we just act. You know there's no like okay, you need to think about this and like maybe this isn't, you know, run this by somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's kind of what they teach you in recovery is to like just run this by somebody, especially if it's an emotional decision. And that inward unmanageability, which they call that in recovery, is also that emotional dysregulation. So it's like my emotions can go anywhere and that makes me unmanageable because like I could react in a negative way just based on the way somebody talked to me. So it's like understanding that when I made that connection I was like, wow, so I'm not, like you know, a screwed up person that's just got bad morals. I just it's just the way my brain's's just it's a lot of, you know, work related strategies, whether that's working from home or going to your job, and like kind of the life around that, and like how do you navigate these things? I also have special guests on there that talk about a wide variety of things.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I really hope that our listeners will check that out. How do people get a hold of you? What's your website?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my website is youradhdcom adhdguycom, and I'm also put to get giving away that free discovery journal, so you can get an e-copy of that at youradhdguycom. It's a simple way to reflect and reset and get to know yourself better on a deeper level. Like we talked about, and for anyone ready to take things deeper, I've got a five session coaching program called the Connection Blueprint, designed to help men over 40 move out of isolation, build confidence and create real connection in their lives, and you can also find that at youradhdguycom. It's been grateful to connect with you and anyone listening.
Speaker 1:Well, Ron, thank you for coming on here and speaking my language.
Speaker 1:Thank you for showing up for the misunderstood and the misdiagnosed. If you're listening and you've ever felt like your brain didn't fit the mold, I want you to know there is no mold. You are not too much. You're not broken, you are not lazy. You are wired for depth and discovery, that curiosity that we talked about. Make sure to reach out to Ron if you need help navigating this world with a neurodivergent mind, and if you love what you've heard, hit subscribe, leave us a review and share this episode with someone who might need to hear that they are enough exactly as they are. So until next time, be kind to your brain and bold with your voice. Remember there is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey, and we will see you next time.
