Parenting Redefined: A Brain-Based Parenting Conversation with Dr. Kristen Cook

Your child throws the sandwich, melts down on the floor, and you can feel every set of eyes in the room. We know that moment, and we also know the shame spiral that comes right after it. Today we’re sitting with Dr. Kristen Cook, pediatrician, mom, and author of Parenting Redefined: A Guide to Understanding and Nurturing Your Child's Behavior to Help Them Thrive, to replace that spiral with something more useful: a brain-based, trauma-informed way to understand child behavior and respond with clarity.

We talk about why one-size-fits-all parenting advice breaks down fast, especially around sleep and “perfect” expectations. Dr. Cook explains temperament, neurodevelopment, and executive function in plain language, and why kids often cannot access planning, impulse control, and emotional regulation when they’re stressed. We also dig into what happens when developmental age and chronological age do not match, including real-world impacts of fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASD), ADHD, autism, anxiety, and overwhelm that gets mislabeled as defiance.

You’ll hear practical strategies for the hardest minutes of the day: how to check your own nervous system first, what fight flight freeze looks like in kids, and why the goal in a meltdown is regulation rather than reasoning. We also cover school-age transitions, the teen brain, identity formation, risk-taking, and the safety conversations we cannot avoid. Then we slow down for the tender parts: grief, divorce, and why children need developmentally appropriate truth and a place at the table.

We end with concrete ways to build family culture that lasts: better after-school questions, attachment and repair, planning for triggers like tired and overstimulated, and using family meetings, mission statements, and apologies as real leadership. Subscribe, share with a parent who needs steadier ground, and leave a review so more families can find these tools.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Dr Cook

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. Today's episode is one that I have been so excited about. We're talking with Dr. Kristen Cook, pediatrician, mom of two, and author of Parenting Redefined A Guide of Understanding and Nurturing Your Child's Behavior to help them thrive. This book looks at parenting not through shame or fear or power, but through understanding how children actually develop the brain, temperament, emotional growth, attachment, and discipline. And you know what? It spoke to my heart. We will talk about all the stages of growing up and family culture. We will be honest about the moments that humble us and the ones that make us question everything that we thought that we already knew. Because we don't know everything. And I also really related with you, Kristen, sharing that you believed that your education and your professional experience would somehow make parenting easier. And isn't it interesting how humbling parenting can be? Incredibly humbling. Incredibly. We're going to discuss the powerful idea that many behaviors that we see in kids aren't defiance, but overwhelming brains that are asking for help. So thank you so much for being here. It's such an honor. Thank you for having me. Like I said, I love this book. I've been parenting for a very long time. Okay. I had two older kids a decade or so ago, and now I'm raising three littles. And I am still learning, and I definitely learned from this book. Thank you very much. Yeah, a couple of the chapters took me back to my old psych class days, which I loved. I'm a psychology major. So I absolutely loved it. Uh, but I want to start with the story that really grabbed me right away. And I think that that's what you intended because, you know, you said that your child was a criminal. And that was hilarious. You know, you're here you are, you're on vacation, you're trying to hold it all together, the perfect family trip, and suddenly your toddler launches a sandwich across the restaurant, landing on a stranger's face, and then has a meltdown on the floor. And, you know, that's all relatable. That's fine. But what really got me was the person in the room who has, of course, the perfect family. There's always one of those. And they say, if that was my child, you know, I would have raised him right, you know, and that really gets all of us because people are watching when our kids are having these kinds of behaviors in the room. So what do we do? What does it do to us as a mom, as you know, all experiences and everything aside, when those kind of situations happen, what's going on with us?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yes. So I want to start with when those situations happen, it is so important to remember that you're parenting your child. You're not parenting that stranger that's judging you.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

You don't, you don't have to change your behavior because a stranger doesn't like it. You are the one that knows your child best. You are going to be the one that is best equipped to deal with any of their problematic behavior, not that stranger.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yes. Oh my gosh, is that great advice? You know, I adopted all five of my kids, and I came into parenting with education and a lot of confidence that I knew how to help people, but I assumed that, you know, that that meant that I would know how to parent too. And parenting laughs at our degrees. Did becoming a parent force you to unlearn everything that you learned in your expertise in your field.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

You know, I love that comment about parenting. That is so true. Not everything, some of the things that I learned along the way in my education, and I was a psychology minor, and I have a strong passion for psychology. Yeah. Um, I will tell you one of the biggest areas that I realized my training was totally wrong is when it comes to sleep. Oh, okay. Because you don't get it. No, not enough. Not enough for sure. But you know, what when I was doing my training, we were all taught to teach parents the cry it out method. And so when, and and if per people aren't familiar, when a baby is between four and six months old, if they're fussing at night, you're supposed to leave them alone and not attend to their needs. That's essentially the basis of the cry it out method. Well, I had a very strong-willed son who did not like to sleep at all. And when he was about five months old, I was like, okay, let's let's do it. Let's sleep train. I mean, this is what I was taught. This is what I teach other people. Yeah. My son screened his head off for 45 minutes. I thought the neighbors were gonna call the police on us. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is not for everybody. We cannot take a one size fits approach when it comes to parenting.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah, yeah. No, you can't. Every kid is different. And, you know, you said that you were embarrassed about what happened with with your son. And, you know, that's natural for a two-year-old to have those kind of behaviors. I mean, so that was fine. But you were curious as to why things like that happen. So you started asking what actually led up to that moment when your son did that. And I think that that sets the tone for the entire book. So I really appreciate that your embarrassment turned into curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

I think that you know, I always tell the families in my medical practice, please don't judge your parenting. People do what they know until they know how to do better.

unknown 6:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

And if you bring the guilt and shame into it, it's going to be a whole lot harder to understand and bond with your child.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It it really is. It's about connection in so many parts of your book. And I want to ask you this because this is coming from somebody from an older generation. When many of us were growing up, and you did touch on this a little bit in your book, it felt like there was very little room for misbehavior. You know, you did what you were told. And the kids who pushed back were the exception. But today, it often feels like parents are dealing with more outbursts, more dysregulation, and more visible behavior struggles. So what's going on here? Are kids different today? Or is parenting different today? Or are we simply understanding behavior differently?

SPEAKER_02 7:12

You know, I think it's a combination. I think we are parenting differently. I think each generation has typical parenting traits. And I think we just have more knowledge. You know, when I was growing up, the emotions of children were not appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

I was supposed to be fine or good because anything else was impolite. And my parents were like so many other parents of that generation. Yes. You know? And so I was never encouraged to express my emotions. And but we have learned over time that that is so important. Yeah.

Parent The Child You Have

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah. I mean, times really had changed from when I grew up and when you grew up. I mean, we really were just supposed to stay in our place. And I I think it's good that we swung over to what kids need because I really do think that a lot of our needs were not taken care of. And I'm I'm sure that that really did affect us. Um, but we did figure it out along the way. But um, one of the lines, and you did say that the lines that stood out to me the most was you need to parent the child that you have rather than the child that you wish you had. And that is such a powerful line. Can you unpack that, what that really means in everyday parenting?

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah, of course. So, first of all, again, we're gonna take the judgment out of that. Every single parent, myself included, at times parents the child they want to have. Because let's face it, we all want a baby that sleeps through the night. We all want a toddler that will not throw a temper tantrum in the middle of aisle five of the grocery store. We all want a preteen that doesn't roll their eyes at us, and we want a teenager that doesn't talk back. We all want that, and that's that's natural, but that's not what we're gonna get as parents.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah. Yeah, you did talk about, you know, the child that won't stop crying, or like you just said, with your son and and sleeping and expecting a five-year-old to independently handle bedtime and no reminders, you know, forcing a child into activities that don't fit who they are. And I think many parents, you know, were going like, oh my gosh, I did that. Check, check, check. You know, I mean, I really don't think that we do those things on purpose. It's it's so eye-opening, though. How do we recognize when our expectations are not lining up with who they are or where they are developmentally?

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yeah, it's it's important to understand what your child is capable of doing and is not capable of doing. You know, continuing on the topic of sleep, for toddlers, sleep is boring. Of course, they're gonna ask you for a million stories and a cup of water, and oh my gosh, I have to go to the bathroom for the third time because they want to play. Sleep is boring. They don't understand how amazing sleep is as adults. We do. Toddler, toddlers don't get it. And there's also that that fear of separation as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

All right.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

So I have a lot of parents, I have a lot of I have a lot of parents in my medical practice that are frustrated because their toddler will not sleep unless somebody sleeps with them. And I just reassure them when your child's 13, they're not gonna be in your bed.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Right. Well, you hope not. I do, I mean, I have one that's had a lot of trauma and he's autistic and he has a lot of it, and and he's nine and he's still wanting to sleep with me every night. So you you hope that that's true. Right. Um, you write about your son's early medical challenges being premature, spending time in the hospital, not being able to hold him the way that you wanted, infantile colic and acid reflux, and you know, the helmet that he had to wear, and not, you know, it would have been so hard not to be able to take care of him with all of this stuff going on. You know, you couldn't hold him at times, multiple surgeries. And then your daughter comes, you know, and like you said, he was strong-willed, she's strong-willed, they're but they're both very, very different people. So, you know, it's so interesting when you have two different kids, same house, same parents, but you have to, we have to realize that same home doesn't mean that we're gonna have the same child.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Right, right. And that's where the concept of temperament becomes so essential for coherence to understand. So, for example, in our home, my son is very active, my son is very loud. He will respond to what I call my husband's football coach mentality of getting him to get on task. Rough, gruff, like step by step, let's do this. My daughter's very sensitive. That approach just makes her freeze. And and so und understanding how aspects of their temperament, their activity level, their acceptance of newness, um, that all that all plays a role in it.

Brain Development And Executive Function

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, yeah. I I had like I said, I have five, and they couldn't be more different. I have to approach every single one of them differently, you know, to get to our goal. So yeah, no, I get that. Now, part one of your book really gets into the neurocognitive development. And I felt like I was sitting in all of my psychology classes, but what I appreciated about it was it wasn't clinical, it wasn't cold, and you made it feel incredibly relevant to real parenting, real kids in everyday struggles. And I think a lot of us as parents, we focus on what we see on the outside meltdowns, impulsivity, refusal, and we assume that they should be able to do better. But your book really challenges that. You explain that children's brains are still developing, and many of the skills that we ask them to do just it's not online yet. You know, we expect them to pause, calm down, think logically, make good choices in hard moments, but the reality is that we're expecting adult-level control from kids whose brains just aren't there yet. And honestly, a lot of adults don't even do these things perfectly. So, how does parenting change when we start seeing behavior through our child's development, their brain, instead of our own frustrations?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah. So the first step is to understand that the human brain does not fully develop until somebody is in their mid-20s. And the brain develops from bottom to top, from back to front. The very last portion of the brain to develop are the frontal lobes, which is where those executive functioning skills are housed. The ability to plan, make decisions, think things through before you act. Those are not skills that kids have well developed. They need to learn how to develop it over time. Yeah.

FASD ADHD And Misread Behavior

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I don't know what God was thinking. That's just crazy to me for that to be developed the last thing developed. Oh my. But when we when we stay, as a parent, when we stay in our frustration, we are asking, why are you doing this? But when we look through the lens of development, we start to say, wait a second, what's happening with them right now? And those are two very different parenting postures. I want to talk about which you just started talking about executive function functioning for a minute, because it really touches everything in our person and what we do in a day, our emotional regulation and impulse control and planning and problem solving and self-awareness. And these are the skills that help us function in everyday life. These are some of the last skills, like what you just said, that are developed in kids. And yet these are the exact skills that we expect in the hardest moments. So we expect them to do the pauses and the thinking through and the calming themselves down. And it's just so hard for them to do those things. And we label that as defiance or laziness instead of recognizing the skilled gap, because that's what it is. And this really hits home for me personally because I have three kids with fetal alcohol exposure, and they all have autism and ADHD, and one has DeGeorge syndrome. So, you know, conversations about executive functioning and regulation and what a child can actually do versus what people assume they should be able to do, you know, those are real conversations in my house. And I think this matters because sometimes the outside world seeds a child's age, their size, their vocabulary, and assume that a level of capacity, you know, that they should be there and they're not. And that child gets punished. And I've had this happen with my kids at school, with teachers, and they get punished for not doing something that their brain wasn't able to do in that moment. So I really want to pause here for a moment because you did talk about fetal alcohol exposure in your book. Can you help us understand what this actually does to a baby's developing brain and what that can mean for things like regulation and impulse control and learning and behaviors as they grow?

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah. And, you know, it's it's so important to understand why we tell women don't drink alcohol when you're pregnant. It truly alters the development of the child's brain. Certain structures of the brain don't develop properly. The connections between the structures of the brain don't develop properly. And so many children with fetal alcohol syndrome will have very severe ADHD because that alcohol messed with the circuitry of their developing brain. And where I also see this is with moms who use marijuana frequently in pregnancy, it doesn't necessarily have the same physical features as fetal alcohol syndrome, but from a behavioral standpoint, it's a very similar presentation. Some of the hardest to treat children I have in my medical practice with ADHD had moms that use marijuana daily during pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Oh wow. See? I I didn't know the connection. Now I do know with FASD, there's so many, and I always say this word wrong, comorbor comorbidities. Yep. Um yeah, there's so many. And autism and ADHD fall under those. I mean, it it really, I think that there are so many people that are walking around that have been affected by alcohol and they never even really realized it because it didn't really become prevalent or known until more recently, and more in other countries like Canada and places like that, but the units United States is a little bit behind on that. So I really appreciated that you bringing that up in your book because it is so important that people not have take a hit off of the joint because you just want to calm down or you want to um take that drink after work.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Right. Yeah, you know, and it's it's it's challenging because I will be the first to admit I did not like being pregnant at all. I hated being pregnant. Now I love my children fiercely, and I would do it again in a heartbeat if I needed to, but I hated it. So I understand the discomforts and I understand the temptation to pour that glass of wine at the end of the day, but everything that you are doing while you are pregnant is somehow affecting that baby. And we have to be kind of we have to be, we have to recognize that.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Is it true? And this is just a side question about breastfeeding, it doesn't affect them anymore, or it does affect them. Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 19:22

That I don't know. I do know that marijuana will pass through breast milk. So if I have a mom that does not want to stop chronic marijuana use, I typically recommend that she don't doesn't breastfeed.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Oh, okay. All right. That's good to know because I heard that it they did used to say it did, and then they changed it.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, well, both alcohol and marijuana will pass into breast milk.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah, well then you shouldn't do it. Right, right, right. You know, a lot of people when they see the they don't understand the brain, they often moralize behaviors and they label kids, and which turns into shame and it can real really add damage. And this is where so many families live everyday life. And a child may be 12, but function more like six. And I have one of those, and he is very, very low functioning. And when it comes to emotional regulation and processing and all of that stuff, I mean, he's just not gonna operate like anybody else, his age. And if we keep parenting, teaching, or disciplining based only on chronological age, we're going to miss them completely. So, what would you want parents and teachers to understand about children whose developmental age and chronological age don't match?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

You have to understand where they are. That's the only way. That's the only way you're going to provide them with the best education, the best upbringing is throw the expectations out the window, get formal testing if you need to to determine, you know, educational testing, to determine what what grade level a child is academically. Get all those things if you need to, neuropsychological testing. Um, but then you have to let that those expectations go. Not every 12-year-old is going to be able to sit still and do an assignment.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And they learn in different ways. Right. Like my one son that I'm homeschooling, it's speech to text, everything that we do for him, because he's got written expressive disorder. And so writing and he is his working memory and his executive functioning isn't online yet, I guess we could say. And I just really appreciate teachers that implement those types of tools, you know, because, you know, they're there. And when I grew up, and probably when you grew up, they weren't there. And so it's really important they're there. So let's use them.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Right. Well, and I'm so glad you brought that up because even within the last year of my medical practice, the amount of speech devices. That I'm being asked to prescribe to children dramatically increased. I had to look, I actually had to look these devices up when I got the first prescription request because I didn't know what they were. And now it's like these devices can be revolutionary for children to benefit from them.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

My nine-year-old was not able to write a paper at all. And now he's writing full-blown uh papers on the Titanic and how to play Fortnite and things like that. And he reads them to the family. And he's really excited that he could do this because he was, he he really felt that he couldn't. So I appreciate them very much because that's the tools he's going to use when he graduates anyway. Right. Right. How can parents take what we're learning about brain development and actually apply it in real moments, especially when we're overwhelmed, we're triggered, and we're running on empty ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

So when I was very first starting my training and I took a CPR class, one of the very first things the instructor said was before you check the victim's pulse, check your own. And that applies to parenting as well. You know, you have to briefly check in with yourself and make sure that you are in a mental state where you can respond to your child calmly. Because if you if you simply resort to yelling, your child is going to learn that yelling is appropriate behavior. And then they're going to yell more. So you kind of have, and it's hard, and it's hard. Um, I give some strategies in my book about how to do this. Um, but you have to regulate yourself before you try to regulate your child.

Fight Flight Freeze And Regulation First

SPEAKER_01 23:42

That is so important. And they are watching every single thing that we do. And, you know, like we said, we're not gonna be perfect. We yell when we shouldn't, but they're watching every single thing that we're doing. And one part of your book that really stood out to me was your explanation of the amygdala and the fight or flight response. And you talk about how a lot of what we call problem behavior in kids is actually their nervous system reacting to stress or being overwhelmed. Can you explain what's happening in a child's brain and body when the amygdala takes over?

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Sure. So the human body is wired to look out for threats. That's how we survived as a species. If we didn't recognize a saber-toothed tiger, a saber-toothed tiger was trying to eat us, we wouldn't be here. So the fight, flight, freeze response is in an innate response that we have no control over. Yeah. So when a child is faced with a threat, and that threat does not even have to be real, it can just be a perceived threat, their body will instinctively prepare to fight that threat, but freeze or run away from that threat. And how we see that played out in real life is what does the child do when they get their hands stuck in the cookie jar? Right? They leave it there. They just freeze.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

You know, I always tell people temper tantrums are an expression of the fight response. Whatever it is, your child perceived a threat and their body decided it was time to fight.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

That is really interesting because I think a lot of our kids are walking around schools and things like in that kind of feeling, you know, a lot of the time. And there's a lot of trauma and things that are going on with our kids at home and, you know, out there with other kids and bullying and different things, and then they walk around in a fight or fight, and then we expect them to learn. So, you know, I think that that's a really interesting point. A lot of the behaviors are not really the what we are actually seeing or what we think that we're seeing. And I think a lot of times what we do, I know that we as adults do this, is that we shift, and it's gonna be it's hard to shift our parenting from my child is doing this to me, or they're doing this on purpose, to my child is having a hard time.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yes. So I see this quite often in school-aged children who have anxiety disorders, where a parent will tell me, Dr. Cook, my child's teacher is telling me that they're being defiant because they're not doing their work. But they're not a defiant kid. Because it's not defiance, it's a freeze response. That is a freeze response. Yep. The child with an anxiety disorder just gets so overwhelmed that they just stop.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah. And I I don't even I well, they're starting to teach us more and more to teachers, I think. But it's being able to meet every and a lot of teachers, they've got 30 plus kids in their classroom. So it's hard to meet every child where they are. But if you've got a kid that's sitting there and they're not doing the work that you think that they are capable of doing, you know, trying to figure out what is really going on with them, what's going on with their brain. And I know that that's a lot to ask, but we need to do that in order to figure out if we the goal is for them to be their best. Right. And if something is standing in the way of their in their brain, from them being their best in the classroom or outside of the classroom, we need to figure out what it is. So it isn't easy. No, so you say that there's no way other than through. And we say that all the time on the podcast, so I love that. But when you're a parent or even a teacher, but a parent, you're standing there in the middle of a meltdown, and the goal is not reasoning, it's regulation. I mean, what do we do?

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah, and it's this is gonna be very challenging because our first reaction as a parent is to try to stop the behavior. But once a child is having a meltdown, if a parent tries to talk them out of it, it's gonna make the meltdown worse because now you're just poking a bear, right? They're in they're in fight mode and you're just poking the bear by talking to them. So the approach that I suggest for parents is this if your child is having a meltdown, whether that's kicking and screaming, whether that's flailing around on the floor, walk away, but stay within their visual sight so that they can still see that you haven't abandoned them. You're there. You're just giving them the time and space to self-regulate. Once the child calms down, they're often very embarrassed or apologetic about their behavior, even if they can't physically say I'm sorry, they feel it.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

And so it's important for a parent, once the meltdown is over, to get down to the child's level, explain why the behavior was undesired, and most importantly, briefly explain how the child could behave more appropriately in the future. The human brain needs to know what to do. Telling the brain what not to do does not help. Okay, perfect example of this. Have you ever told told yourself, don't cry? You're gonna cry harder because your brain needs to know what to do. And it's the same whether the brain is developed or still under construction.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Right. Right, exactly. I mean, uh this falls for adults too. I mean, so many of these things that we're talking about. I mean, of course, our brains are more developed and we should be able to do, but these things do affect us too. Very good.

unknown 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

I mean, th think about being in a in a meeting and your boss takes credit for all your work. You're you're probably gonna go into freeze mode because you don't want to lose your job. Because the other options would be to scream at him, which is fight in a way, which you're not gonna physically leave the boardroom, you know. Right. So, yeah, these things apply across the board.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Right. Yeah. Just maybe saying, Yeah, thank you very much for taking credit for my work. Good job. Yeah, I know we have to be figure out ways to be calm. Uh, one thing I also really appreciated in your book is how clearly you break down the brain development at every level, at every age. And we as parents can meet the younger child in this way, and a preteen in this way, and an older teen in this way. And the stage from about six to early teens is such a big transition. Kids are getting independence, school expectations increase, emotions get bigger, and a lot of us parents, you know, and we instinctively want to yell, punish, and it doesn't work. We find out really early that yelling doesn't work when you're talking to kids that age. So during those school age years, what actually does work? What strategies help parents guide behaviors while still supporting a child's developing brain? I mean, when we're yelling at them and they're looking at us, and I mean, what do we need to change in that moment?

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Oh, and you know, ideally this starts as soon as you have kids. You need to recognize that you're getting upset before you lash out at your child. Because when you're angry, you're not able to understand. And and the goal is is understanding so that we can help them develop appropriate behaviors in the future.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yeah, I like that because we're so angry, we can't even it's maybe giving ourselves a timeout and then rejoin them until we're calmer.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah. Yeah. And and and how appropriate is it to tell your child, I'm really upset right now. We need to talk about this, but I need a minute to calm down.

Guiding Kids From School Age To Teens

SPEAKER_01 32:02

I think that that's great. And it teaches them a strategy in in their own for their own. So then we move to the teenage years, and the brain, actually, the teen brain is really fascinating because you talk about how the teenage brain becomes highly driven by reward and dopamine, peer approval, and anything that feels exciting or rewarding in the moment. So, what should parents understand about the teenage brain and talk about risk taking too?

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Yeah. So, a huge important topic to talk about with teenagers is safety. You know, you have to be comfortable and enlist your pediatrician for help if you're not. You've got to talk about the dangers of vaping. You've got to talk about the dangers of driving recklessly. You have to talk about the dangers of alcohol and marijuana and unprotected sex and all of those uncomfortable things that we as parents don't want to talk about. But your teenager is not necessarily going to vape marijuana because they are trying to upset you. They may be doing it because they're trying to fit in with their friends. You know, they they may be trying to impress a girl that they like. It's not to do it because they want to hurt somebody, they're doing it because it's rewarding at the time.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah. And when they're doing all of these things, and, you know, we all did them. We all messed up. We we did things our parents didn't want us to do either. I mean, we all did. So it's trying to keep that connection. I think connection more than control. And you do point that out in your book. I mean, that is just so important to meet them where they are. It's hard for us, you know, it's so important to allow our kids to have the freedom to be who they are and not who we want them to be. But the more that we tell them not to do something, of course they're gonna do it. So, you know, what happens to that parent-child relationship when parents can't tolerate their teen thinking differently from them?

SPEAKER_02 34:11

That's that's a hard one. But one of the major psychological struggles of the teenage years is identity formation. And it is so important to give your kids the space to try out different identities, to let them have belief systems that are different than yours. And teenage years are a lot of trial and error. A lot of trial and error.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

It really is. Yeah. You never know what you're gonna get when they walk in the door.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

No, no, not at all. And it's and it's not what you would expect. So my son right now is 13. So we're in the yes, we're in the midst of this. And he is the type of kid that will tell me anything. If he has an a rash on his bottom, he's like, Hill on the front, and pull down his pants for me to look at it, right? Like, and I hope he doesn't listen to this because he'd he would be so embarrassed by that. But he is he's very comfortable sharing things with me. However, girls are now in his world.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

And and that is a hard stop for him. He will not talk about the girls in his life with me at all. So about a week ago or so, I came home from work and my son was in his room, and I was like, Okay, Chad, that's my husband. What's Mason doing? Oh, he's talking to the girls. So I knock on the door to say hi. I, you know, I waited a minute until he said I could come in and I said, Hey, Mace, who are you talking to? He puts the phone down and goes, nobody. And that is so hard, because I want to know details, right? Like I want to know who these girls are. I want to know what he likes about them. I want to know what their connection is. But questioning him about that pushes him away.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

So as hard as it is, I just let it go.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

And you know, what's interesting is my 12-year-old, who also, you know, he has all the things that I talked about earlier. And he's pretty low functioning, but he likes girls. That doesn't change those kinds, there are certain things that do chronologically go with them, even if they are emotionally behind. And it's the same thing. I mean, all he'll talk about somebody and it'll be really brief, you know, a girl at school. And so then I'll mention something about, and she's like, Mom, stop. You know, to me, it's kind of fun though. I'd like kind of poking to kind of get get it out of them and see what I'll get.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah, but you know, the other thing too is it's really important that the kids don't run the show, right? So we had an issue, it wasn't an issue, it was a situation where my son wanted to go out to lunch with a group of his friends, and he didn't want to tell me who those friends were. And I said, Okay, okay, Mason, now this is a safety thing because I need to know who you are hanging out with. And so I you can give me the most minimal information, but as a parent, I need to know who you're spending your time with.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah. That's different. Yeah. Because I mean, they're going out of the house, they're going somewhere. You don't know where, yeah. You need to know where you're who your kids are going to be with when they're out. Right. And where they're going. Yes. And they need to have their device, they need to have all the safety stuff in place, they need to answer the phone when you call. They, you know, I mean, yeah, those things are really important. They can't run the show with that.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

No, I mean, it's so as as important as seeking identity is for teenagers, parents still have to set boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

And they want us to, really. They do. They do. Yeah, they don't want to run the show. In fact, they don't feel as safe if we let them run the show.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

They may pretend like they want to run the show, but children of all ages crave consistency, security. They thrive when a parent is in charge. Now, that doesn't mean we have to throw that in chargeness in our kids' faces. You know, my dad used to probably wear this shirt that said, I'm the daddy, that's why. Insinuating that he was always right. Now, that we don't want to take it to that extreme, but we still need to be the ones that provide the discipline and set the behavioral expectations for our kids.

Helping Kids Understand Divorce And Death

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, I mean, there really is a balancing. Every developmental stage basically has a balancing and has tried to figure figure that out. Uh, another part of your book, I really appreciated how you brought in Piaget and the stages of cognitive development and all the psychologists that you had in there. It tickled my psychology brain. I you also made an important point that these theories don't always fully account for neurodivergent children or developmental delays, and that development isn't linear for any child, even if they're neurotypical. I also loved your discussion on imagination, egocentrism, and a magical thinking and how kids can use that, you know, to figure out the world. They make sense of the world that way. How do we help kids, though, in that stage not own and blame the hard things like divorce, like divorce and death and those types of things?

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah. So um, when we talk about egocentrism, what we're really referring to is kids have a very hard time seeing the world from other people's perspectives. The way see the way they see the world is the way they think the world is. So, for example, it's not uncommon for me to have a parent of a toddler be upset that their child has no empathy because when their friend fell off the swing and scraped their knee and cried, the child didn't feel upset. Well, of course the child didn't feel upset because they weren't the one that got their knee scraped. That also that helps us understand their behavior, but it also, you know, explains why sometimes toddlers seem like they have a lack of empathy. And the way we can help them develop this is to suggest what somebody else's perspective is. So, for example, in that child that fell off the swing, we can tell our child, ouch, you know, I bet it would really hurt if you scraped your knee and you would probably cry too. You know, so suggesting what a person is potentially feeling and why they're behaving the way they do can help our children kind of learn to get past that egocentrism.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

And and the other part of that is with the hard things that are going on, you want them to get a bigger picture of what's going on, other than it just being the way, because I guarantee that they're not, they're gonna need help understanding what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, the big life events, you know, divorce, moving is a really big one for kids because that's a a change in their security level. The younger kids, toddlers and early school age kids, are going to think that those situations are their fault. And we just have to demonstrate to them time and time again that it's not. But we also need to make sure we do it in developmentally appropriate terms, right? Like so if a child's friend's parents are getting divorced, you don't want to tell the five-year-old that it's because the dad was a cheating scoundrel, you know? You just want to say that they can't be friends anymore, you know. So it's it's it's important to be honest with our kids, but keep it developmentally appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

And each developmental stage is affected differently by trauma and what's going on. So I want to pause on the concrete operational stage, which is roughly ages seven to eleven, or the stages where it there's permanence. And what happens where there is a major loss or divorce? How can parents help them through this? Because I lost my dad when I was 11. You lost your grandma when you were 11. So, you know, those kinds of losses during that stage are really a big deal. So, what should parents do for this when major loss happens during that stage?

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yeah. So I think it's important to have repeated family meetings. And depending on the temperament of your child, maybe the entire family gets together. Maybe it's just the parents and one child at a time. But, you know, sit down and say, this is really hard.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And I want you to talk about anything you want to talk about. You can talk about how you feel. You can talk about if there's any behaviors that come up for you. Anything is safe to talk about. Let's, you know, put it on the table.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Some of these things that you have in this book, they really hit me. They really like you also talk about something that I think a lot of us adults quietly struggle with, which we kind of touched on earlier. Many of us were raised in environments where emotions were seen as weak. And you're very honest about your own upbringing, where emotional expression really wasn't welcomed. And you talk about how that led to drinking, and I did the exact same thing. I drank a lot, and emotional eating before we eventually, you know, you turned it into healthier ways, and I did as well. But for parents who grew up in that way, where do we even begin when the big emotions show up? If our instinct, and it is sometimes with me still, is to shut down, hide it, push it away, and our kids are actually, they need to see us handle this in a healthy way. So, what does that look like in real life?

SPEAKER_02 43:50

So, for a parent that was not encouraged to express their emotions, it's important to just gently start to understand what those emotions are. Feel like. And the terms emotions and feelings are typically used interchangeably. I think they're slightly different to me. Okay. Feelings are the physical sensations that come up in your body.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

And the emotions are more of the mental stuff that comes up when you're feeling that. And one of the exercises that I talk about in the book is if if a parent wants to understand what anger and anxiety feel like in their body, turn on a scene from an intense action movie. And in the middle of that scene, pause the movie and notice what is going on in your mind and in your body. Okay. Is your heart beating faster? Are your hands sweaty? Is your breathing shallow? Those are all physical sensations associated with anger and anxiety. So once parents can start to identify those, then they can kind of start to understand their own emotions.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

They are very different things. And we have to address them within ourselves before we can help our child, like we did say earlier. I mean, that's really important. I want to go so somewhere very personal in this because I have never, in my entire podcasting career of, you know, journalism in general, or, you know, um interviewing a guest, reading their book, I have never had the reaction that I did with your book. Because yes, because my dad died when I was 11. And I thought that my dad at the funeral, when we were all at the calling hours, I went around trying to get people to believe me and hear me that my dad was breathing. And you put that in your book about your grandma. I did. Yeah, I did. I had like a physical reaction to that. I was just like, it affected me so deeply when it happened to not have anybody listen to me, you know, and not they didn't go through the grief process with me, with you, like we try to do now with kids more. But back then it it wasn't, they just didn't do that. And they just kind of ignored me. And I spent a year having uh dreams of my dad coming to come get, he wanted to get me because I let him be buried alive. And I was trying to tell people this. So adults, you know, we do handle it better, but at the same time, can you talk about how important it is for kids age appropriately to be included in the grief process?

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Yeah. They will not learn how to process trauma unless they go through trauma. And as much as we want to protect and shield our kids, that does them such an incredible disservice because how are they supposed to learn coping techniques when they're 18? They have to start learning those techniques from a very young age. So I have a family in my medical practice. Um, the dad unfortunately died of a drug overdose when the child was three years old. Okay. The child, of course, started having behavioral problems. And the family's response was just to buy her a bunch of toys. And the mom was very frustrated because this wasn't helping, and all she was doing was breaking those toys.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Oh, interesting. That's so interesting. I spent, they would get me Barbies and I would take the heads and the limbs off of my Barbies. And I think I was trying to tell them something.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure you were because those toys were not meeting the need.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Right. Right. And that was the same thing. We my mom showered me with gifts at Christmas and birthdays and things like that, but the love wasn't really there. So it's really interesting how they think that they can try to, you know, swap gifts for love and it'd be okay. Um, but we do notice.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Yeah, you you can't substitute stuff for affection and attention.

Emotions CBT And Healthier Self Talk

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Right. Uh, you also lost a whole part of your family after my sister was given to the system after my dad died. And so that was a whole nother thing that wasn't talked about, and the same with you. You know, kids were they we were watching, and our kids are watching us. It's just so important that we understand that how we're acting, they're in the room and they know a lot more than we give them credit. Yeah, they do. And it's also really important for us not to make them think that they are making us feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah. So one of the things that I always talk to parents about, several basic tenets when it comes to emotions. There is no such thing as a good or a bad emotion. Emotions just are. There is no emotion that is final, it will eventually pass. There are positive and negative ways to behave in response to an emotion. So the CBT triangle typically thoughts, emotions, and actions are intimately related. And it's usually set up as a triangle with double-sided arrows going between those three concepts. But most commonly, thoughts will lead to emotions, and emotions will lead to actions. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yes. I love that part of your book. Yeah. And I love the exercise that went with it. I loved how writing down all the thoughts. I mean, I don't know if I could write down every thought that I have because I'm very ADD, but it would be kind of fun to watch how my thoughts went. But, you know, writing down every thought, asking, because you want us to ask, is this thought actually mine? Is it true? Is it serving me? You know, I talk a lot about thought stopping on the podcast. We really can change our behaviors by how we think. We can stop our thought and change it into a different direction, reteach ourselves how to make that path in our brain go a different direction with thoughts. I I really believe that. And it starts with self-awareness. So I really loved that exercise in the book because it does make you more self-aware.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I I actually did a similar exercise with a mom who was crying in my office yesterday. And the first thing she told me was, Dr. Cook, I'm failing as a mom. And I said, Okay, number one, you're here, so you're not failing. And number two, have you ever thought about the good things that you do as a mom? She was like, No. I said, I want you to write them down. Every single thing that you do that benefits your child, I want you to write it down. And then in a few days, I want you to look at that list and ask yourself if you still think you're a failure.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Isn't that crazy that we do that? That we focus on the things that we do negatively. I mean, I could do a hundred things right. And then I'll go to bed just thinking about the one thing I would do wrong. Right. I don't it it doesn't g serve us in any way.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

No.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

And so that's another part to that CBT is like saying, is this serving me?

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Is it serving my family for me to even have these thoughts? Right. That turn into behaviors.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

And and she was very self-aware. And and she she said, you know, I know that I I think that I'm a failure, and then I yell at my kids. And I know I don't want to yell at my kids, which makes me feel like more of a failure.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Yeah. And they pick up on that too. They do, they do. Our self-talk, you know, and we want them to have positive self-talk to themselves throughout the day, no matter how hard their day is, or no matter if they make a bad choice, or, you know, we still want them to work through and come out on the other side. And if we want all these things for them, we need to do those things for ourselves too.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Right. And it's so important for parents not to put themselves down in front of their children. And this is especially important for moms when it comes to physical appearance. So when I was growing up, I had horrible body image issues. Uh, I had an eating disorder that almost cost me my career. Oh. Never once have I let the words, oh my gosh, I'm so fat, come out of my mouth in front of my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

You know, and and I still sometimes think those awful negative things. We all do, but you have to find a way to stop it from coming out of your mouth because your kids are always around and they are always listening and they are learning from your behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Or the I'm so dumb. Yes. Mm-hmm. You sometimes we say things because it's in the moment and it's just like you do something. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm so stupid. And it's not, you're not really thinking about how that's translating. Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Because from your child's perspective, they think you're incredible. And if you're saying that you're stupid, what are they?

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Right. Oh, see? Yeah. That and when they make those mistakes, then they must be. Right. Right. Yeah. The other thing that you talk about with them, with kids coming home from school, and I really liked this part about when they come home from school, we get the how was school? Good. What did you do? Nothing. You know, that kind of conversation. How are you? I'm fine. And you don't allow fine. You know, how can parents move past that kind of conversation and what kind of questions actually help them open up?

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Yeah. So for school-aged children and teenagers, you know, when the kids come through the door, because they're inevitably going to go to their bedrooms and close the door. So you got to catch them while they're there. Um, you know, I recommend asking a series of three questions. What did you like about your day? What was challenging about your day?

unknown 54:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

And what what is anything else that you want to tell me about your day?

Attachment Trauma And Adoption Realities

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Mmm. I like that. See, open-ended questions. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. You know what we also did was we converted our dining room into a game room. Yeah. And so all of their stuff is right next to we have all of our stuff. So they we can hear everything. They go right into their game room, they get on their game systems, they, you know, their Xbox and their PlayStation and their some of the toys that they still play with or whatever, they're all right there. So I can very much hear everything that they're saying, and we can have communication through our rooms, and we're still kind of in the same space, and I like that because a door isn't closed. So I really try to work on that. So we're all still kind of together. Your a your chapter on attachment is incredibly important, especially for parents who are raising children from hard places. You're you explain that attachment isn't just warm, emotional, and it's not equal to love. It's about survival, it's about whether a caregiver consistently meets a child's needs and how those patterns shape a child over time. You have a whole spectrum of that. And I really love how you did that. Why is early attachment so foundational for a child's brain development and emotional well-being? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Because it sets the stage for every single relationship that your child will ever have in the future forever.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

That's so profound. I mean, wow. Yeah. So, so if you're talking about families that there are disruptions, they are removals from caregivers, foster care placements, inconsistent caregiving, what impact does that have on them then and later in life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

I mean, it can it can change everything. So years ago, I had uh a family in my medical practice that was bounced around from foster home to foster home. Um, parents unfortunately maintained a drug trafficking home, and the children were exposed to that. And the older sister ended up providing all of the cares for her brother. And in fact, and in fact, I'll never remember this. The first time I met her, she was thirsty. Instead of asking us for a cup of water, she hopped up to the sink, turned on the faucet, and stuck her face under it. Oh, it was what she knew. That's what she knew because there was nobody else around meeting her needs. And so she developed severe relationship and behavioral problems. Yet her younger brother did much better outcome-wise.

unknown 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

He was able to stay in school. He was able to connect with other people because she had been taking care of him and providing for those basic needs.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Wow. Yeah, we we have a daughter who is really having a difficult time. And, you know, the first 18 months of her life, none of her needs were taken care of. Then her younger brother was two months old when we got him. She was 18 months and he was two months. And he was failure to thrive, and he was drug addicted. But he has really come a lot further because we got him when that attachment was still so important, you know, and we just shouted, we held him all the time. We tried to do those things with her, but it's different at 18 months than it is at two months.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

It is, it's so different. And you know, I always tell parents, there is no such thing as spoiling a baby. No, it that does the concept does not shouldn't even exist.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

You know, it is so important. If they're crying, try to figure out why. And you're not gonna get it right every single time. I mean, I've cha I've gone to change plenty of dry diapers because I thought my babies were crying because they were wet, you know. So you just kind of go through a checklist of what you think they might need, and most of the time you'll get it right. Most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

And that's okay. It's okay. Yeah. But my question for you, and I I unfortunately, you know, through counselings and all kinds of different therapies with my kids, have, you know, sometimes, and I pray that this isn't true, but is it too late to repair attachment if those early needs weren't fully met? And what does repair actually look like?

SPEAKER_02 59:05

So in some situations, it's not possible, you know, with intensive interventions, yeah. There there's hope, you know, but um it it takes specialized therapy, it takes, you know, trauma therapy. Um, and I'm certainly not an expert in in that field whatsoever. Um, but it it it it's it's it's a rough go. It is it is.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

I mean, I we are living it, so I totally understand that. So if anybody listening questions how important attachment is in those early months, it is detrimentally important.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Yeah, but it's also important for parents to understand that there is no such thing as perfect. There are there are going to be needs that you're gonna miss. You know, it's the overall pattern of consistency that matters.

Triggers Play And Family Culture

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Yes. I mean, we can't attend to every need. I mean, that's not that we that's impossible to do. Right. But at least they know that we're there, you know. I mean, I that's the most important thing. I mean, even my nine-year-old now will be in the other room, and every now and then I'll hear this mama, and I'll say, Yeah, and he'll say, Okay. Mm-hmm. That's it. They just want to know that we're there sometimes. Yeah. And and so we're not perfect, but it's just that they know that we're there and we will meet that need. It might not be immediate, it might have had to wait a little bit or whatever, you know, but they know that we're there and they know that we will be. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You you talk about how kids are always watching us, like we talked about and learning from what we do. If we cuss, they cuss, you know. I know. I learned, yeah, my kids, um, yeah. So it's but if we want to change, if they if we want them to change, we have to change. So it really does, it shows that if we want different behavior from them, we have to have different behavior. So you also highlight how important play is, not just for fun, but for building creativity and problem solving and relationships, and that we need to let kids just be their play, whatever that is. Just do whatever you want to in your play without constantly directing them. What are kids really learning from us, both in how we behave and how we allow them to play?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Yeah, they're they're learning everything. They're learning what is socially appropriate behavior, they're learning how to develop relationships with other people. I had a I had a mom in my medical practice, this was probably about a week ago, that wanted her child to have an autism evaluation. And whenever a parent, I always like to understand what are the behaviors that you're concerned about. Let's talk about them first. Well, when she took her child to the park, her two-year-old didn't engage with the other kids. She watched them, she observed them, but she didn't want to go down the slide with them. She didn't want to go on the swings with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

That's developmentally appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

But you're right. I mean, and also just because a kid is acting a certain way that might fall under the spectrum doesn't mean that they have that. Correct. Some of those things are so out there now. And and we're almost actually looking for it. And we're a little afraid, oh, they did this, they did this, oh my gosh. Maybe it really is just developmentally okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Another point that you make that you really that really stood out to me is kids just come into this world wired the way they are, in their own unique ways, no good or bad. It's simply who they are. So, can you talk about why it's so important for parents to stop trying to force their child into certain personalities or mold?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Yeah. So focusing on the the child that you have, not the one that you want. My my husband and I weren't loud, we're active, so is my son. Sunday is very interesting in our home during football season because the house gets very, very loud. My daughter is very sensitive to that. She doesn't like it. It's not her thing. Okay. She almost never watches a football game with us. And at first, that really bothered me. Like, this is this is a potential for family time. Like, why don't you come down and hang out with us? Even for the Super Bowl, when we had friends over, she and her other friend stayed in her room the entire time. And it just took me to understand this is too much for her. This is too overstimulating. Okay. And and for me to try to force family togetherness in a situation that she was not comfortable in. Well, that just teaches her that she can't be who she is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

And it's okay. Right, right. You you talk about talk about triggers. I mean, I grew up and, you know, uh parents ignored our triggers and expected us to self-regulate and figure it out. And now we've kind of gone all the way over here and we do all the things with a house full of autistic individuals. I know we do this, we have the snacks, we have the fidgets, we have the devices, we go with a backpack full of stuff everywhere we go to help with transitions and overstimulating situations. How can parents prepare proactively without feeling like we're being controlled by our child's needs? I'm asking for a friend, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

So there are universal triggers for misbehavior. Being angry, being tired, being hungry, and being overstimulated are the four main ones. That will cause negative behavior in almost anyone at any age. So when it comes to helping your child prepare for that, try to avoid those triggers. As you said, take snacks everywhere. Make sure your kids are getting enough sleep. Be mindful of situations like football games that are overstimulating for your children.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

So try to avoid those triggers when you can, and your child's behavior will be a lot better.

Mission Statements Apologies Co Parenting

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Yeah, we go with the big ear, my one son. If we have those, um, he's fine. And just cover his ears, and he's good just about everywhere we go because it's noise canceling, he can't hear anything. And we do, we try to prepare and think about anything that could happen that could send set either one of them off. So it's you know, you have to go with all the tools. Right. Right. Yeah. It's okay. I mean Really does keep the calm in the family and it allows everybody for the most part to participate. If you have to leave early, you have to leave early. If you have to, you have to do what you have to do so we can participate in family events as much as we can. Yep. I also loved this. I loved your family mission statements and your family meetings. You touched on it a little bit ago, but you shared your family missions statement about kindness and respect and open communication and focusing on effort rather than punishment. And I thought that was so powerful. I told my family after reading that. I said, we are doing this. We are doing this. We're gonna have, I had never thought about it. We're going to have a family mission statement. We're all gonna come together, we're all gonna have a voice, which you you know that was really important, and we're going to build this together and who we are as a family. I loved it. And what did that how was it with your family? How did that go?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

It it was a uh big source of connection for all of us because the kids felt empowered to speak up. My husband and I felt like we were kind of setting the tone for our for our house. The thing I have not done yet, and I I really need to make the time to do is to write that statement out and hang it up in my kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Oh, I love that too. Oh my gosh. And maybe I would have them sign it. You know, sign it, and then we would hang it up because you know, yeah, that really does represent who we are. We can always go, you know, when something happens, go, mm, mm-mm, see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Yeah. And, you know, it if you're so inclined to make it fun and creative, add handprint prints of your kids on it. You know, maybe they could do a handprint and sign their handprints so they can remember, you know, about the age they were when the mission statement was hung up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

Yeah, that would be really cool. Yeah, and and date and everything. That would be so I I really loved it. And then the family meetings, we're gonna start doing that too. I think that it's really important that we have moments. I knew somebody that um they called their kitchen space. That was off limits. Their parent and another woman I knew, when they sat in that chair, they could say anything they wanted and not get in trouble. That was that space. And I think that it's important to have like the family meetings or an individual meeting if they want to call one by themselves, and they sit there and be able to say whatever they want without judgment or consequence. And it's a time for us as well, because this is the other part of it with you that you um brought about was apology. And you had a whole part on misconceptions, but that okay, we're the boss, but what do we want to look like? And when you talked about that, it almost made me think, because I've been in lots of meetings at work, and we're all sitting around the table, and you're looking at the leader. What do you want that to look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Did they give you a voice? Did you feel like they were the end all? You know, you don't want that. That's not really the leader. So, however, you would want them to handle it in the workplace with you is how you really would like to handle your family. And so, okay, yes, in a way we are the boss, but what do we want that to look like in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Yeah. So, my opinion is that being a parent is the most important leadership role a person will ever have in their life. And the same qualities that make a good leader oftentimes make a great parent.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

Yeah. And and apologizing and owning up, you know, all of those things fall into that. And in in the family meeting and outside of them, I mean, I think that that's a really great, you know what? I wasn't, I'm not perfect, and I'm really sorry. And I'm apologizing to you, and I want to repair our relationship. I want to be accountable and I want to model this, you know, and and being consistent. We need to be consistent too.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

Well, and then that's where that three-step approach that I was talking about when it comes to meltdowns can circle right back around. You know, you yelled at your child, you can tell your child, I'm really sorry I yelled. I let my anger get the best of me. Next time I'm gonna take a deep breath before I address this situation with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Now, this was big because I hadn't even really thought about this, but co-parenting would really add a whole nother level to this. And I'm really glad that you included that section because we want it to be child-centered and not about what the problems of the parents have. And this can even happen within our four walls when we're not getting along or we don't agree with how we're parenting. And so we don't want to bring them into that. We want to stay child focused. So, what are some of the most important principles for healthy parenting, co-parenting, especially when the adults don't always agree?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Yeah, you have to get your ego in check. You just do. Because no matter how much hurt or pain that past relationship caused you, yeah, it resulted in the creation of at least one human being. And that little human being deserves the best possible outcome that they can have. And so it's so important to put aside your differences. Yeah. To try to ensure the best outcome for your child. Your child needs consistency. You know, what a big red flag that I see in my office is when two parents who are not together anymore will bring their child in and say, Well, in my home, we do this. Well, in her home, where they do that. It's that contest.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Right. And when you talk about, talk bad about the other one in front of them, then what kind of message are you sending them about their dad or their mom?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Right. Right. Because despite your relationship with each other, your child looks up to both parents.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

Right. Yeah, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

And they and they don't deserve to be put in the middle of any of your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:49

And they will feel feel in the middle. They and they also feel as if they have to choose.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

So yeah, and this was good because I think we all can relate to this when we've got sibling problems. Yeah. And, you know, it's not fair. They got this and I got that. Or when they did this, this is the punishment they got, but I'm getting this, you know. So it's really funny because how can parents explain different rules or expectations for different kids in the same house?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

Yeah. And, you know, again, this is gonna vary on age and developmental level. Um, but be honest with them. I'm trying to think of an example from my own life because my kids do this quite often. It's not necessarily in terms of discipline, but my husband coaches my son's football team, he coaches my son's travel baseball team. So he spends a lot of time with my son. Well, I'm very aware of the effect that has on my daughter. So we we make sure to schedule daddy-daughter dates for them. Okay. So she knows that just because dad is not acting as your coach, he still loves you and cares about you and you are no less important than your brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

Right. Well, we too have the exact same thing where it's like, well, you know, how come he has to go to bed now and I don't? You know, that's just a really simple one. But it's like, well, because this is what you need. And it's not about being fair, it's not about everybody getting the same thing. It means that everyone gets what they need. And that's the most important thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

Yeah. Well, and again, when it comes to sleep, different ages require different hours of sleep each day in order to promote optimal health and wellness.

unknown 1:14:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

And so you you can tell, you know, your eight-year-old, yeah, you have to go to bed at eight o'clock, but your teenage brother doesn't have to go to bed till 9 30 because your brain needs more rest than his does.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:58

Right. And when he was that age, he went to bed at that time. Mm-hmm. Yep. So yeah, I mean, and we shouldn't have to explain everything, but you know, it's okay to to also let them know that they're not really different. We just are trying to meet their needs where they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:18

Right. And as sometimes as annoying as it can be for us as parents, for our ch our children to challenge those differences, that's an important skill for them to learn. Because what if they grow up and they're in the work environment and they're given double the work of their colleague who's getting the same amount of pay. It's important for them to learn to question and stand up for themselves in an appropriate manner.

Resources And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Yes. I teach my kids all the time to advocate, self-advocate, stand up when it's appropriate in an appropriate way. Yes, right. So this book is incredibly thoughtful. It's informed, compassionate, and very practical. But what I love most is that it invites parents toward understanding the development process and the child that they're actually sitting across from. And it has nothing to do with fear and shame and that kind of parenting. But we're trying to reach the goal of them becoming their best self where they are. And it's raising kids an environment where they feel understood, supported, and able to grow in the way that they grow. So, Dr. Kristen Cook, I want to thank you not just for the science and the practical tools, but for the honesty in this book. I truly think it gives parents language, relief, and a better way forward. And I have to say personally, the places where your story and mine intersected, especially around grief and emotional suppression and how it meant in our childhood, was very deeply moving. And I'm really grateful for your openness. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:11

Oh, thank you. Those what kind words. What a gift you have just given me. Thank you so much. It was an absolute joy and a pleasure to have this conversation with you today. How can people reach you?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

You have a website?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Yeah. So my website is www.christencookmd.com. Most of my social media handles are momdoctalk underscore KCMD. And the book, Parenting Redefined, is available on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

You have a podcast, correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:43

I yeah, I do have a podcast. Yes. Yeah. It's also it's also called Mom Doc Talk with Dr. Kristen Cook. Okay. I'm gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

Oh, thank you. Friends, the book is, as she just said, Parenting Redefined, a guide to understanding and nurturing your child's behavior to help them thrive. If this episode spoke to you, share it with another parent, caregiver, teacher, foster parent, adoptive parent, or grandparent who needs encouragement and real tools because this book gives you the tools. It's so important. And as always, there is purpose in the pain and hope in the journey. Thank you for being here with us on Real Talk with Tina and Anne, where we tell the truth, hold space for the hard things, and we keep showing up for healing. And as always, we will see you next time.